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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 10:02 AM
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I remember a scene in one of the early Horus Heresy books where the Luna Wolves slaughter a bunch of human remembrancers and civilians for some reason or another. Just splattering 'em. I need to read some more of these books.
I think that was when they returned to the Vengeful Spirit after Horus was wounded, and the remembrancers got in their way. They stomped all over them.
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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 11:02 AM
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I think them like Vin Diesel or what he's name is. Put him in photoshop and change his size by making it 30% vertikaly smaller, not horizontialy. Then take the whole picture except the head and make it 100 % bigger. There you have it.

Mentaly? The books I have red paint them with the whole spektrum of human emotion so my view are quite human but because their long life and everpresent dangers of war they may be a bit more cold and harsh.

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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 07:31 PM
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I think that quote would be more powerful if told by a non-Astartes. Grimaldus being aware of his nature in that manner feels misplaced.
Grimaldus sorta has an epiphany after defending Helsreach. He's a bit more...human? Or at least, understanding of the human perspective.

My gut instinct was to reject this character development, but it makes sense after serving with humans for those brutal months of warfare defending Helsreach. In the end, I liked it.

I think this little bit of introspection into the nature of Space Marines jives well with his new perspective.
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 07:38 PM
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I'm a little taken back at what people perceive marines to be. Maybe I'm a little off my rocker?

Physically...I think we can all mostly agree with what they are physically.

Mentally, I'm a bit shocked. Everyone so far has described so very...human.

They're not. Not in my mind. Their personalities and motivations have been narrowed down to honor, duty, and loyalty to the Emperor, their Primarch, and their brothers (in that order).

I'm painting broad strokes here (and clearly not all marines feel this way), but I don't think most marines should actually have a rather low emotional intelligence.

They're taken from dangerous worlds where the drive to survive supersedes the finer points of civilization. Not only that, they are taken as *children*. Even if they lived in better circumstances, biologically they're not ready to really understand other people.

Then they're indoctrinated by chemical, psychic, and hypnotic means to fight, listen to orders, and praise the Emperor. And additionally whatever quirks their Chapters holds.

The rest of their time is spent training to fight, recovering from fights, or ultimately fighting.

It's not like marines don't like dealing with humans, they simply do not know how to interact with humans. I think ADB is probably the closest to depicting the inhuman-ness of the Astartes in The Emperor's Gift and Helsreach.

An Astartes is probably closer to an advanced combat servitor than a human in terms of how they think.

Space Marines aren't simply humans with extra organs and super strength. They are other. They are post-human.
Generally 999 Chapters out of a thousand I'd agree but I think the Salamanders are more human and seem to make sure they stay that way.

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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 08:03 PM
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Grimaldus sorta has an epiphany after defending Helsreach. He's a bit more...human? Or at least, understanding of the human perspective.

My gut instinct was to reject this character development, but it makes sense after serving with humans for those brutal months of warfare defending Helsreach. In the end, I liked it.

I think this little bit of introspection into the nature of Space Marines jives well with his new perspective.
I agree. The development of his relationship with Andrej from the start of Helsreach to the end of Blood and Fire really shows how he is learning to deal with humans. He's still not great, but he's getting there.
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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 08:24 PM
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I'd figure them to be fairly autistic in their attitudes. They have a stunted social interaction and are results driven. They are one of a few to be chosen, one of even fewer to survive the process, and even less to survive the horrors of combat. They are worshipped as heroes across the imperoum, probably with action figures or similar, and are seen as literal angels of the Emperor.

They outclass anything human, where they have been shown to chase speeding vehicles, and withstand immensely powerful weaponry - autocannon rounds are often likened to 40mm shells, while stubbers are 50 cal guns, their basoc weaponry being more powerful than what is considered the heaviest machine gun in modern era weaponry which is already capable of destroying the bodies of those it hits, and is something that is only normally mounted on a vehicle.

They can carry and serve their own heavy weapon system - including aforementioned 40mm autocannons or full calibre explosive rocket launchers. They are pretty much a walking medium tank in todays terms.

They do not get PTSD

They do not have family.

They do not have friends.

Their weekend off is not a few beers down the pub woth some matea from school days.

They are uniquely engineered killing machines, designed to go against the literal demons, and face down Orks which can be oitweigh a human by around 3:1 in hand to hand, fight tyranids whose reactions are near light speed and can peel open battle tank armour like a packet of crisps, and win then do the same again. And again.

They are desogned to enter a battlefield from a positio in low orbit, not only survove the ground shattering impact, but exit the drop pod before it is destroyed by heavy weapons, and fight. They have eodetic memories and access to some of the most advanced battle intelligence ever conceived, filter all that information as it comes up on their HUD, enact on it, and utilise all of its abilities during the middle of combat.

It must be like trying to pick out a moving target on a video game where ypu are trying to factor in things like bullet drop, coriolis effect, wind deviance, while avoiding hitting friendlies in the crowd he is dpdging through, as ypur little brother is starting a pillow fight, you are attempting to revise for next weeks test and keep an eye on next doors dog which is taking a shit on your lawn. A near physical impossibility for us, and yet something of that complexity is an Astartes bread and butter.

There is nothing that even fellow elites like Scions can remotely empathise with or bond with on a more even level than they are good soldiers.

If you have ever read the book the 'curious case about the dog in the garden' which details a boys struggles with aspergers, I feel that is simiar to how an Astartes should be with others.

When it is arpund people it is comfortable with, then it is fine, the awkwardess goes, and they become more normal. Hell it is hard for todays soldiers to relate to their families the hell of what happened in Afghanistan, and those who fought during The world wars is a horror not many can live with.

Hell, on my last tour in ghanners, we took a psychiatrix test on our return. 17 out of the 26 in the unit were defined as sociopaths, woth personality traits matching Lord Voldemort, Sauron and Emperor Palpatine on the little sheets they gave us. The other 9 were various, but they certainly weren't harry/frodo/luke, aragorn/han/dumbledore. We're essentially fucked up - and then amplify that a thousand times.

Literal warrior monks. Nearest analogy is probably Shaolin monks or crossed woth Terminators.



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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-01-14, 08:42 PM
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Generally 999 Chapters out of a thousand I'd agree but I think the Salamanders are more human and seem to make sure they stay that way.
Space Marines also have serfs which depends on the chapter, some are failed SMs, others are local humans that have sworn to serve (it would make sense if salamanders have these). Socially I tend to view SMs mental ranging from otakus to autistic.
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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-02-14, 12:17 AM
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I'd figure them to be fairly autistic in their attitudes. They have a stunted social interaction and are results driven. They are one of a few to be chosen, one of even fewer to survive the process, and even less to survive the horrors of combat. They are worshipped as heroes across the imperoum, probably with action figures or similar, and are seen as literal angels of the Emperor.

They outclass anything human, where they have been shown to chase speeding vehicles, and withstand immensely powerful weaponry - autocannon rounds are often likened to 40mm shells, while stubbers are 50 cal guns, their basoc weaponry being more powerful than what is considered the heaviest machine gun in modern era weaponry which is already capable of destroying the bodies of those it hits, and is something that is only normally mounted on a vehicle.

They can carry and serve their own heavy weapon system - including aforementioned 40mm autocannons or full calibre explosive rocket launchers. They are pretty much a walking medium tank in todays terms.

They do not get PTSD

They do not have family.

They do not have friends.

Their weekend off is not a few beers down the pub woth some matea from school days.

They are uniquely engineered killing machines, designed to go against the literal demons, and face down Orks which can be oitweigh a human by around 3:1 in hand to hand, fight tyranids whose reactions are near light speed and can peel open battle tank armour like a packet of crisps, and win then do the same again. And again.

They are desogned to enter a battlefield from a positio in low orbit, not only survove the ground shattering impact, but exit the drop pod before it is destroyed by heavy weapons, and fight. They have eodetic memories and access to some of the most advanced battle intelligence ever conceived, filter all that information as it comes up on their HUD, enact on it, and utilise all of its abilities during the middle of combat.

It must be like trying to pick out a moving target on a video game where ypu are trying to factor in things like bullet drop, coriolis effect, wind deviance, while avoiding hitting friendlies in the crowd he is dpdging through, as ypur little brother is starting a pillow fight, you are attempting to revise for next weeks test and keep an eye on next doors dog which is taking a shit on your lawn. A near physical impossibility for us, and yet something of that complexity is an Astartes bread and butter.

There is nothing that even fellow elites like Scions can remotely empathise with or bond with on a more even level than they are good soldiers.

If you have ever read the book the 'curious case about the dog in the garden' which details a boys struggles with aspergers, I feel that is simiar to how an Astartes should be with others.

When it is arpund people it is comfortable with, then it is fine, the awkwardess goes, and they become more normal. Hell it is hard for todays soldiers to relate to their families the hell of what happened in Afghanistan, and those who fought during The world wars is a horror not many can live with.

Hell, on my last tour in ghanners, we took a psychiatrix test on our return. 17 out of the 26 in the unit were defined as sociopaths, woth personality traits matching Lord Voldemort, Sauron and Emperor Palpatine on the little sheets they gave us. The other 9 were various, but they certainly weren't harry/frodo/luke, aragorn/han/dumbledore. We're essentially fucked up - and then amplify that a thousand times.

Literal warrior monks. Nearest analogy is probably Shaolin monks or crossed woth Terminators.
Not get PTSD? Tell that to Sargent Avitus of the blood ravens who did get it and caused him to betray his chapter.

as for astartes some are inhuman in thought but others like the salamanders , celestial lions, ultramarines and space wolves remain very much human. Salamanders make sure of this and have gone to blows with other chapters for sacrificing civilians.
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-02-14, 12:24 AM
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Not get PTSD? Tell that to Sargent Avitus of the blood ravens who did get it and caused him to betray his chapter.

as for astartes some are inhuman in thought but others like the salamanders , celestial lions, ultramarines and space wolves remain very much human. Salamanders make sure of this and have gone to blows with other chapters for sacrificing civilians.
Also outside of video games, there's a few books where the astartes are clearly suffering from PTSD, or at least guilt.

Plus in some chapters the marines do have friends.
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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 09-02-14, 12:42 AM
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Not get PTSD? Tell that to Sargent Avitus of the blood ravens who did get it and caused him to betray his chapter.
Please. The Blood Ravens are a garbage chapter the gaming division of GW made up that combined the Psyker prowess of the Thousand Sons + the nobility of *random chapter* to please a demographic I had no idea existed.

There are no decent/serious stories or novels featuring them unless you consider CS Goto to be an actual author. To the more devoted readers of BL, they are a joke chapter that don't exist.

Space Marines do not get PTSD. They cannot. It is one of the fundamentals of their existence. Just like how they cannot feel fear.

Last edited by Malus Darkblade; 09-02-14 at 12:46 AM.
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