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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-08-14, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
That is a really stupid story. No personal offense intended, Malus.

The hive "evolved" to defeat Nurgle's diseases? I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex. The whole point of Nurgle's diseases are that they aren't natural. Evolution doesn't help. No "natural" disease causes you to become massively hungry and explode into mounds of nurglings. No "natural" disease kills you and turns you into a warp animated zombie.

And suddenly Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids? Again bullshit. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.

The other difference is that a single world 'out there in the galaxy' isn't the same as a world in the eye of terror. The entire fabric of reality is bathed in the empyrean in the eye of terror. I suspect the effect of the shadow in the warp would be much diminished by the ambient and really available power of chaos.
I know. The Nurgle bit got to me because like you said, it has nothing to do with natural biology/evolution and the same with the Khorne bit.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-08-14, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
That is a really stupid story. No personal offense intended, Malus.

The hive "evolved" to defeat Nurgle's diseases? I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex. The whole point of Nurgle's diseases are that they aren't natural. Evolution doesn't help. No "natural" disease causes you to become massively hungry and explode into mounds of nurglings. No "natural" disease kills you and turns you into a warp animated zombie.

And suddenly Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids? Again bullshit. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.

The other difference is that a single world 'out there in the galaxy' isn't the same as a world in the eye of terror. The entire fabric of reality is bathed in the empyrean in the eye of terror. I suspect the effect of the shadow in the warp would be much diminished by the ambient and really available power of chaos.
I think Malus forgot the include the ending of the story.

All of a sudden the entire ultramarine chapter and their successors commanded by magnus calagar arrived and curb stomped the nids and sealed the warp rift within the span of two hours.
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-08-14, 10:31 PM
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Bwa haha. Uh huh.
Calgar ex machina.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-11-14, 01:39 PM
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This makes me rethink a lot of things.
Indeed, quite a story. I do find it a little hard to beleive that a Carnifex's took down a Daemonic Prince or two. However the idea of the Zoans interfering with the psychic abiltiies of the daemons is something I can see, even lends credit to certain theories regarding the Nid evolution cycle.

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Would this interfere with the free-reign of daemons within the Warp to renew, or possibly be a strong enough mental presence that the Hive Mind would be effectively a minor Warp God?
From my understanding Two Meters Tall the "Shadow in the Warp," that a Hive Mind generates is more like an EMP pulse that is given off due to the Minds high psychic latency. Using all that "Mental Enegry," to command the billions upon billions of creatures makes it like a shinning beacon in the Warp.

Therefore I feel that while the Shadow would create a "Psychic Free," area within the warp, which would give the Nids an edge against any Choas foes they meet, that ultimately the Choas Gods would over-power this ability. However this is something that only GW and the Writers can answer.

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C'tan, plus necrons and daemons depending your definition
C'Tan yes, daemons maybe, Necrons no. Necrons are made of a living metals, but metal nonetheless. They could easily be killed and consumed by the Hive Mind to future processing. It would be interesting to see what the Nids create using the Guass technology of the Necrons.

However this does not explain why the Tyranid Fleets have been avoiding the Necrons like a plague for the last 3 major assaults upon the galaxy. This is a question I personally would love to see answered.

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Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids
Really? Last I checked Khorne is a human emotion given birth because of the inner-nature of all humanity; same with Nurgle and Tzeetch. Thus if the Tyranids are not creatures that give the Choas Gods power then perhaps they are seen as outside the wanting eye of Choas. It's not that hard to see this being possible, though I would agree the writers need to put a few novels out there explaining this fully.

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I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex.
As I said above, it is quite feasible. The Hive Mind studied the Physical, Biological, and Chemical reactions and events that surround the life and death of it's creatures that make up the whole. Therefore you could say that the Mind would notice if hundreds and thousands of it's Warriors started popping into Nurglings.

IMHO it would study this, find out the physical aspect to it, and create creaturew with the ability to counter it. The Mind is the ultimate Evolution Machine, and I can easily see it combating the powers of Choas by adapting it's own "Biological Strategem."



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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-11-14, 05:37 PM
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I continue to disagree strongly.

Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.

Like wise Nurgle's diseases aren't always corporeal. A supernatural disease would require a supernatural adaption, not an evolutionary one.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 01:26 AM
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There have been a couple of throw-away examples in the lore of Tyranid Hive Fleets being infected by Nurgle's Rot or other warp plagues.

Moving into the Eye of Terror wouldn't end well for the Tyranids. Their ability to sustain themselves via biomass would be heavily impeded given that most worlds and inhabitants of the Eye are corrupted (I can't imagine trying to consume a Daemon World ending well).

Aside from that the daemonic legions can freely exist within the Eye so the Tyranids would potentially be up against infinite daemons.

I can't envisage any situation that would benefit the Tyranids from entering the Eye.
As always, the CotE speaks true. Nids in the warp is a loss of Bio Mass to the Nids. I think it was a Grey Knight codex that mentions Nurgle corrupting a whole fleet once.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
I continue to disagree strongly.

Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.

Like wise Nurgle's diseases aren't always corporeal. A supernatural disease would require a supernatural adaption, not an evolutionary one.
I believe its because individually the Tyranids lack personalities or even souls.

They only have character as a whole species.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by emporershand89 View Post
C'Tan yes, daemons maybe, Necrons no. Necrons are made of a living metals, but metal nonetheless. They could easily be killed and consumed by the Hive Mind to future processing. It would be interesting to see what the Nids create using the Guass technology of the Necrons. However this does not explain why the Tyranid Fleets have been avoiding the Necrons like a plague for the last 3 major assaults upon the galaxy. This is a question I personally would love to see answered.
Living metal is a name given to describe the metal's regenerative properties. It is no more living than any other metal or rock. Necrons cannot be absorbed in any way by the tyranids, and there is certainly no way tyranids could ever utilize gauss technology. That's just foolish.

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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.
Tyranids have ichor, not blood. And it could be arfued that they have exoskeletons, not skulls.

In any case, the current tyranid codex lays this to rest. A daemonic incursion occurs on a planet being consumed by the tyranids. At first the daemons' natural superiority gives them the edge, but the lack of real psychic energy to feed on eventually causes them to lose their strength and be defeated.

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!

This is all well and good, but take into account the third line of this phrase;

Souls for the Soul Eater!

The act of spilling blood and taking skulls offers up the souls, or psychic energy, of the slain for the daemons of Khorne and their patron to feed. The tyranids do not have souls to give, so these acts against them contribute nothing.

It may have been something if these had been mortal servants of Khorne who could relish the act, but the daemons themselves would not be able to feed off their own energies would they? And with the tyranids having no souls to give, the daemons' starvation and defeat was inevitable.


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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 06:11 AM
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In all the years of playing warhammer (more than 20) I have never heard that 3rd line and find it highly suspect (or a more recent addition, just as suspect).

Serp, in all honesty I just disagree, I'm not debating. I have no intention of changing my mind. In other words, no need to take time to convince me - if you want to try for others go for it, but I don't want to waste your time.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.

Last edited by Kreuger; 04-12-14 at 06:14 AM.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
In all the years of playing warhammer (more than 20) I have never heard that 3rd line and find it highly suspect (or a more recent addition, just as suspect).
It was added, as were many things, by BL authors for reasons I don't fully understand but which provide expansion on a flimsy idea nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
Serp, in all honesty I just disagree, I'm not debating. I have no intention of changing my mind. In other words, no need to take time to convince me - if you want to try for others go for it, but I don't want to waste your time.
And you wonder why it doesn't make sense?

In all honesty, your approach to interpreting fluff is garbage, but thanks. I too, will stop wasting my time at this point.


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