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post #51 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-16-14, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
The Eye of Terror only makes up 1/10 at most of the galaxy. The Eldar Empire was the WHOLE GALAXY, which means many Exodite or Maiden Worlds (Which are in codexes and fluff) populated by Eldar that remained untouched.
Their Codex states that only the farthest Exodite and Craftworlds survived The Fall. The rest of the Eldar (the great majority) were overwhelmed during her birth.
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post #52 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-16-14, 08:31 PM
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At the end of the day, there is no real numbers given, and only our use of logic. Mine thinks its rather ignorant to think they all nearly died, and at the least 25% (thats being unfair too imo) survived.

Unless you have real numbers (I love real numbers) its my opinion vs your own

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Their Codex states that only the farthest Exodite and Craftworlds survived The Fall. The rest of the Eldar (the great majority) were overwhelmed during her birth.
The same Codex also states Craftworlds too close to the EoT were not killed or harmed in any way, like the one Magna Ra pulled out of the EoT cause it was Too Close. Why should Exodite worlds half a galaxy away be affected? Why is there Exodite Worlds less than half the galaxy away from the EoT exist still, as in the Exodite Worlds located within the areas of Segmentum Pacificus, Tempustus, and Obscurus which are all located near the EoT. (See Scan Below)
Also the source states all Orks and Humans died in the area of the Eldar as well, yet.... Terra is perfectly fine right next door! (See Scan below again) So why should Eldar half a Galaxy away be affected at all?

Contradicting evidence to the wording.
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post #53 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-16-14, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
At the end of the day, there is no real numbers given, and only our use of logic. Mine thinks its rather ignorant to think they all nearly died, and at the least 25% (thats being unfair too imo) survived.



Unless you have real numbers (I love real numbers) its my opinion vs your own







The same Codex also states Craftworlds too close to the EoT were not killed or harmed in any way, like the one Magna Ra pulled out of the EoT cause it was Too Close. Why should Exodite worlds half a galaxy away be affected? Why is there Exodite Worlds less than half the galaxy away from the EoT exist still.

Contradicting evidence to the wording.

Well the codex do state that the craftworlds rode out the psychic backlash while eldars within thousands of lightyears away turned to lifeless husks. As I read it I think craftworld eldars where shielded against slaanesh's birth but succumbed to other causes directly or indirectly associated with the Fall.

We also know from our codex that some craftworlds has colonized maiden worlds post-fall and these could easily be the closer exodite worlds you are refering to.

This could be explained with how I see the big part of 40k fluff. That it is more or less written with an Imperial point of view and for them an Eldar is an Eldar despite if they wear strawhats and grow potatoes, they live in continent-sized spaceships, they dance and wear funny custumes or they pop up from nowhere just to sew you and your pet together while feeding on your soul. Just another Eldar in the eye of a human.

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post #54 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-16-14, 10:14 PM
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Unless you have real numbers (I love real numbers) its my opinion vs your own
That's fine to have your own opinion. Stating your opinion as if it was fact (particularly the use of "easily") is not.

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he same Codex also states Craftworlds too close to the EoT were not killed or harmed in any way, like the one Magna Ra pulled out of the EoT cause it was Too Close.
Source?

The codex merely states that Altansar "rode out the initial psychic shockwaves" of the Fall and that it "was subsequently caught in the gravity well of the Eye of Terror".

Page 8 of the Codex states that "All Eldar within thousands of light years [from the epicenter] were reduced to lifeless husks...Even those who had foreseen the catastrophe and fled upon the craftwords were overwhelmed, with only those furthest from the devastation surviving."

So we know that 1. Altansar was at least several thousands of light years away from the center, and that2. it was still sucked in some time later.

That's it. Nothing about it being too close to the epicenter to be destroyed.

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Also the source states all Orks and Humans died in the area of the Eldar as wel
There we probably humans around where the Eye of Terror is (this being during Old Night) and we all know the Orks are everywhere. I wouldn't find it surprising billions of humans and Orks died when the Eye of Terror came to be.

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So why should Eldar half a Galaxy away be affected at all?
Several reasons I could think of:

1. Slaanesh was born from "suckling upon the dark fodder of the Eldar spirit". There's a direct connection.

2. The "psychic shockwave [of Slaanesh's birth] focused on the Eldar"...
~~~~~~~~

I mean, to use a bit of deductive reasoning you're so fond of, how could the Eldar go from a galaxy-dominating civilization to know they are "doomed" if some 25-30% of the civilization survived? That's a significant portion.

Remember, their technology, culture, and other knowledge remained in tact after the Fall. It's not like humanity where we've forgotten how to manufacture most of our technology.

It's purely a number reason why the Eldar are a weakened race.
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post #55 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-17-14, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
That's fine to have your own opinion. Stating your opinion as if it was fact (particularly the use of "easily") is not.



Source?

The codex merely states that Altansar "rode out the initial psychic shockwaves" of the Fall and that it "was subsequently caught in the gravity well of the Eye of Terror".
You stated the source, Codex Eldar 4th edition. The Craftworld was so close to the EoT it was sucked back in. Thats as close as you can get. Period. Yet none of those Eldar instant died like some craftworlds stated to have caught to close.


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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Page 8 of the Codex states that "All Eldar within thousands of light years [from the epicenter] were reduced to lifeless husks...Even those who had foreseen the catastrophe and fled upon the craftwords were overwhelmed, with only those furthest from the devastation surviving."

So we know that 1. Altansar was at least several thousands of light years away from the center, and that2. it was still sucked in some time later.

That's it. Nothing about it being too close to the epicenter to be destroyed.
Do you have any clue how far several thousand Light Years is? Its not far at all my friend.

"The Milky Way contains over 200 billion stars, and enough dust and gas to make billions more. The solar system lies about 30,000 light-years from the galactic center, and about 20 light-years above the plane of the galaxy. More than half the stars found in the Milky Way are older than the 4.5 billion year old sun."
www.space.com/19915-milky-way-galaxy.html space.com

Seriously, 7 thousand Light Years is barely any distance overall. Also Terra which is close to the EoT was UNTOUCHED by the soul sucking as well. Even though it states all these Humans and Orks died with Eldar as well.



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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
There we probably humans around where the Eye of Terror is (this being during Old Night) and we all know the Orks are everywhere. I wouldn't find it surprising billions of humans and Orks died when the Eye of Terror came to be.



Several reasons I could think of:

1. Slaanesh was born from "suckling upon the dark fodder of the Eldar spirit". There's a direct connection.

2. The "psychic shockwave [of Slaanesh's birth] focused on the Eldar"...
~~~~~~~~

I mean, to use a bit of deductive reasoning you're so fond of, how could the Eldar go from a galaxy-dominating civilization to know they are "doomed" if some 25-30% of the civilization survived? That's a significant portion.
I explained above the deductive reasoning of Glaxy length to Eldar populating all the Galaxy in some form or another. As for why the Eldar decline, I explain already from the Codex itself. it has nothing to do with numbers, but it has to do with several facts.

1) Eldar low Birth Cycle is laughable to the other races. Meaning in time they would be overwhelmed anyway.

2) Eldar lost the major numbers with the fall, and were in disarray as a civilization. They also lost their Warp Gods. That stings.

3) The other races after the Fall had the time and space needed to boom out of control to overwhelm the depopulated and disarrayed Eldar.

This is all explained in the codex wording when read. At least to me.

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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Remember, their technology, culture, and other knowledge remained in tact after the Fall. It's not like humanity where we've forgotten how to manufacture most of our technology.

It's purely a number reason why the Eldar are a weakened race.
Yes, there is a number of reasons. I never said otherwise. Eldar after the fall were not incompetent though after 200 years (toward the end of the Great Crusade) which is the Original Topic is discussing. They could and should beat back the Emp easy after 200 years of foresight, Aspects being made, and relationships reforged. As well having more Eldar Numbers 200 years after the fall compared to 10,000 years after the fall.
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post #56 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-17-14, 07:18 PM
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God damn it. Why does the back button erase all of our post?

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he Craftworld was so close to the EoT it was sucked back in.
No, it didn't. Read it carefully. As I said, all we know is that it rode out the psychic turmoil and that at some later day it was sucked in by the gravity of the Eye of Terror.

Never that it was near the Eye of Terror when it was created.

You can interpret that it was, but it is never stated to be so. Assumptions are dangerous.

Equally plausible is that they rode out the psychic waves farther out, then swung back to check out the Eldar heartland and got too close.


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Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
Do you have any clue how far several thousand Light Years is? Its not far at all my friend.
It only states that Eldar within a few thousand light years became lifeless husks and their souls claimed. Other Eldar, farther out, may have simply died.

We know for a fact that Eldar within a few thousand light years became husks and lost their souls and that only the farthest Craftworlds survived. Those are indisputable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I won't get into the nitty gritty about how strong the Eldar civilization was.

If you want to believe that 1/4th of the Eldar survived the Fall, go for it. I personally do not see, even with the reasons you listed, how they could go from the absolute undisputed masters of the Milky Way to a "doomed" people by losing only 3/4ths of their people. It's too big of a jump.
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post #57 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-17-14, 07:52 PM
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God damn it. Why does the back button erase all of our post?



No, it didn't. Read it carefully. As I said, all we know is that it rode out the psychic turmoil and that at some later day it was sucked in by the gravity of the Eye of Terror.

Never that it was near the Eye of Terror when it was created.

You can interpret that it was, but it is never stated to be so. Assumptions are dangerous.

Equally plausible is that they rode out the psychic waves farther out, then swung back to check out the Eldar heartland and got too close.




It only states that Eldar within a few thousand light years became lifeless husks and their souls claimed. Other Eldar, farther out, may have simply died.

We know for a fact that Eldar within a few thousand light years became husks and lost their souls and that only the farthest Craftworlds survived. Those are indisputable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I won't get into the nitty gritty about how strong the Eldar civilization was.

If you want to believe that 1/4th of the Eldar survived the Fall, go for it. I personally do not see, even with the reasons you listed, how they could go from the absolute undisputed masters of the Milky Way to a "doomed" people by losing only 3/4ths of their people. It's too big of a jump.
Agree to Disagree then
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