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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Default Why is Draigo's fluff so frowned upon?

'Don't be so sensitive. It's an attack on the silliest piece of fanfic ever to get through to a codex in my almost 25 years in the hobby. I'd be laughing at it if appeared in our home brew fluff section, and assume an over enthusiastic 12 year old wrote it.' - a member, on Draigo vs. Mortarion.

Why does everyone get so butthurt over Draigo's fluff? Why is it so preposterously stupid that a guy who has trained for hundreds of years to be good at killing and maiming Daemons and is the best Daemon-hunter in a chapter of an unspecified number (but very likely over a thousand) of the finest Daemon-hunters that humanity has to offer?

I think that the Draigo vs Mortarion fluff is pretty cool, to be honest, in the way I find all of the archaic Grey Knights-fighting-without-actually-fighting fluff cool. You can read it as Draigo using all the hatred for the Daemon, added to his anger over the death of Geronitan, to power up a psychic attack to banish Mortarion and it had the side effect of projecting this psychic power as a carving wave of energy that scarred the name Geronitan into Mortarion's heart, perhaps even as a psychic signature? (Note: this is a terrible explanation, so a visual cue for anyone who's played Skyrim - you know where the Greybeards teach you Unrelenting Force, and use their Thu'um to carve the words into the ground? That's how I imagine Draigo's attack on Mortarion).

Draigo's fluff is incredibly vague, so if you want to read it as Draigo is Matt Ward in 40k, that's fine and you can do that, but if you want to read him as a 9ft Dragonborn version of John Constantine as portrayed by Keanu Reeves, that's perfectly valid too.

I just don't get why so many people say the fluff is terrible. It has the potential to be terrible, yeah, but no more so than it has the potential to be kind of awesome.

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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:05 PM
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I think it is less him beating the one demon and more him then spending eternity stomping demons while trapped in demonville.


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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:05 PM
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I generally agree with you. It certainly isn't as illogical or unbelievable as people like to make out.

Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:12 PM
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The cartoons about him on YouTube are pretty hilarious.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:19 PM
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I've never had an issue with his fluff either. Draigo is noted as being rather powerful, he is a superhuman warrior trained and conditioned to fight daemons, given some of the best anti daemon weapons and equipment available to mankind, and fought daemon Mortarion in real-space, where daemons are inherently weaker.

But then again there are still people who consider Ward to be the one and only person capable of ruining the fluff; so it should be no wonder people blindly hate the likes of Draigo.

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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:20 PM
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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 07:53 PM
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I also personally don't have an issue with that piece fluff. I think it's more a case of Ward hate making people biased towards any fluff he writes. The bit about Draigo and Mortarion is extremely vague, so we have no idea how it really went down.

I am willing to bet that if Hyperion breaking Angron's blade during the 1st War of Armageddon hadn't been described in such great detail by ADB in The Emperor's Gift, but instead had Matt Ward put a single line in the codex, while describing the events, like "And the Grey Knight Hyperion used his psychic might o shatter the Black Blade of Angron" or something along those lines, people would have complained about that too.

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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scscofield View Post
I think it is less him beating the one demon and more him then spending eternity stomping demons while trapped in demonville.
Yeah, but he's not stomping Daemons, really. He's a minor inconvenience to them, and the Gods are allowing it because it's an amusing distraction from the Great Game. They really don't care that Draigo burns down Nurgle's garden - it's not made of anything, so Nurgle can just conjure it back up again instantly. It's probably more effort to stop Draigo than it is to 'repair' the 'damage' he does. He can shatter Tzeentch's fortress or kill all the Daemons that have ever and will ever exist and it comes to precisely naught.

I think that's pretty dang cool.

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 08:26 PM
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And now to break the trend of people who don't mind Draigo's fluff. C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

I posted an answer to this question in another thread, but the reason for the hatred towards Draigo, and by extension Matt Ward, is due to four overlapping grievances against Ward and his fluff: flat characters, shattering of willing suspension of disbelief, violation of previously-established fluff, and attitude.

Originally Posted by Protoss119 View Post
Yes, Draigo is a Grey Knight, and an accomplished one at that. That does not change the odds against which he would face against such powerful entities as Mortarion, or the daemonic entities within the realms of the Gods, or surviving the Warp in the first place where other mortals simply cannot survive. What's more, nothing has been presented that could alter the odds of survival; many have provided explanations, but Matt Ward embraces none of them.

It took 109 Grey Knights to tackle Angron and his Bloodthirster bodyguard in the First War of Armageddon, and only 13 survived. As for Draigo vs. Mortarion?

Originally Posted by The Battle of Kornovin, 901.M41
Alone and unaided, Draigo smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard, strikes the Primarch to the ground and carves Geronitan's name on the Daemon's vile heart. Though Mortarion ultimately escapes, it is many long years before he can enter the mortal realm once more.
There are things we don't know, of course. We don't know about any prior fighting beforehand. We don't know how powerful Mortarion's bodyguard was. We don't know Mortarion's prior condition. Can we expect [satisfactory] answers from Matt Ward himself to these questions? Consider this, found on Draigo's page on GW's website:

Originally Posted by Matt Ward
Lord Kaldor Draigo is a combat monster - there's no other way to describe him. He's lethal against non-daemonic foes, with plenty of Strength 5 force weapon attacks to lay a beat down. When faced with hated Daemons, his Titansword becomes Strength 10, ensuring a pretty one-sided fight in his favour. Even if his enemy survives, Draigo's storm shield is sure to keep him fighting. And on top of all of this, Draigo is a Grand Master, able to bestow extra abilities on his allies. Want your Dreadknight to capture objectives? Draigo can make that happen. Want a Scouting screen of Dreadnoughts? Draigo can make it happen. He's the best possible way to keep your opponent on his toes.
Matt Ward has a history of shilling whatever faction it is he's working on; his comments on the Ultramarines in a White Dwarf article (can't remember which) are well known by now and do not bear repeating. This has given him a reputation in the eyes of many readers as a tool and a hack. Are we to accept at face value that Draigo defeated Mortarion effortlessly while the latter was at the pinnacle of his power?

Of course not. You can ask readers to accept the impossible, but not the improbable. 40k is full of impossibilities, but the setting must stay consistent with itself. That is why readers such as myself take issue with Draigo's battle against Mortarion and his thriving in the Warp - because both are improbable, and nothing has been done by Ward to even the odds. Couple this with Ward's percieved attitude and readers like myself get the impression that Draigo's achievements have been tacked on to increase the size of his proverbial dick, to make him look awesome.

Yes, Draigo's story is meant to be tragic - he can achieve no lasting victories against his daemonic foes, and he is trapped in the Warp for ten millennia. That point, however, could have been reached without such suspension-of-disbelief-shattering clutter. It's like squeezing a lemon with a Rube Goldberg device; sure, you have your lemon juice, but couldn't you have just as easily squeezed the lemon with your own hands?

To sum up, some readers don't like Draigo's fluff because they don't believe it.
Like I said, readers' problems with Matt Ward are overlapping. Because of Matt Ward's perceived attitude, a lot of readers assume that he's shilling his self-insert Mary Sues at the expense of the established fluff, and because of Matt Ward's history of writing up such overpowered characters, readers assume that he must enjoy doing so. It's a vicious cycle that has all but guaranteed their continued ire towards him.

Homebrew stuff for your viewing pleasure:
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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 08:30 PM
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Ever heard the term "Mary Sue"?

It's a term generally used to refer to a character who is so perfect in pretty much every way; so much so that they're boring, if you haven't heard of it before.

Simply put, he's stupid. He's a non-primarch that's stronger than a primarch, has no personality (seriously, his entire entry is about how much ass he kicks everywhere all the time), and....well there's just not much to him other than "lol I spend all day fucking up the dark god's shit".

He's flawless, simply put. And as a character in a fictional world, it makes him incredibly dull and stupid.

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