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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 10:00 PM
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“Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke.” -Joss Whedon

I am of the opinion that the Orks not only have a place in 40k, but are necessary for the grim darkness of 40k to be taken seriously for one reason: Bathos. It is true that the Orks are a comic element in an otherwise dark and depressing universe, but that comic element serves to make all else in the galaxy seem darker by contrast, being that the Orks as a whole are the only faction with a sense of humor about the grimdark galaxy they inhabit.

In any case, without such an element, it would fall to the players to introduce this humor into the game - look to /tg/'s canon for proof of that. If the Orks did not exist, it would be necessary to invent them.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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So they're clowns that kill, maim and burn.

Doesn't click.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
So they're clowns that kill, maim and burn.
Sooo...then just normal clowns.
Wait no orks aren't creepy. They're non-creepy clowns, yes I know that's not possible.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-06-14, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
However, the Orks cannot be said to be part of those encroaching upon humanity's domain and wiping it out once and for all simply because of the fact that they squabble amongst themselves far too often to pose a serious or as serious of a threat as the other alien races.
The Orks can't be said to be encroaching upon humanity because they've always been there. The threat has never gone away. To this day some of the most brutal wars the Imperium has ever fought have been against the Orks. They are arguably the greatest material threat the Imperium faces. The most numerous, the most aggressive.

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And more importantly, it isn't on their agenda. They don't specifically have the Imperium in their sights.
Only Chaos can even be argued to be specifically gunning for the Imperium. Several races don't even have the Imperiums doom as a side effect of their main goal. The Orks main agenda certainly would not end well for the Imperium.

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Moving on, what role do the Orks really serve nowadays?
The Orks have a very important role to play. The Orks are numerous enough that their presence on any world doesn't need explaining and aggressive enough that their status as a villain is obvious. Their rapid reproduction, vast numbers and disjointed leadership mean that they can be routinely beaten without reducing their galactic threat. Their motives are easily understood but no less terrifying for it. They are, in short, the perfect villain.

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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade
The Necrons and the Tyranids are much more dangerous than the Orks. With the Greenskins, they can be bribed, manipulated or tricked. You can't do those things with the Necrons or the Tyranids.
Actually you certainly can negotiate with the Necrons, but you can't really bribe Orks. All Orks want to do is fight, there is simply no way to get them to avoid that. All you can hope for is to convince them to fight someone else, but given the way Ork society functions this only delays the inevitable and likely makes it worse in the long run.

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Had they have been around back in the Emperor's day, I'm quite certain the Great Crusade would have come to a screeching halt.
I call bullshit. The modern Imperium has beaten back both these foes on ocassion and the Great Crusade blazed through thousands of alien empires to conquer the galaxy in a mere 200 years. There is nothing that could stop it.

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The alien grunted a stream of curses in Gothic as it struggled in the knight’s grip.
I assume that was supposed to disprove what Serpion said? Despite him pointing out that Orks are capable of learning Gothic, and speaking it. The Ork is swearing in Gothic because its swearing at the Marine, that doesn't mean that the Ork only speaks Gothic.

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Originally Posted by Protoss119 View Post
I am of the opinion that the Orks not only have a place in 40k, but are necessary for the grim darkness of 40k to be taken seriously for one reason: Bathos. It is true that the Orks are a comic element in an otherwise dark and depressing universe, but that comic element serves to make all else in the galaxy seem darker by contrast, being that the Orks as a whole are the only faction with a sense of humor about the grimdark galaxy they inhabit.
Could not agree more.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 06:26 AM
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Orks were at one point the biggest threat to the Imperium.
I have to disagree. Orks are STILL the biggest threat the Imperium. Orks can never truly be defeated. The necrons can potentially be driven back into their tombs, the tyranids can be killed off (after all, a single astartes chapter defeated hive fleet behemoth on its own) and by all accounts humanity is evolving into a psychic race that will make the threat of the chaos gods a thing of the past. But Orks are a fungus and once they infect a planet they never go away.

Orks outnumber every other race in the known universe. Orkish chatter can be heard coming from neighboring galaxies. They are everywhere and the only thing they want is to kill everything that is not an ork for shits and giggles. They have no motive beyond looting and slaughter.

Some people do not get the joke of the Orks, the thing about them is that the grim dark future of the 41st millenium is not grimdark at all for them because they love it. Imagine a person who would want to live in the 41st millenium, imagine the kind of person who would wake up with a smile on their face every day in a world where the biblical apocalypse was happening all around you, imagine a person who would look up at the sky and see ravenous horrors raining down on them and cry out with glee because a genocide was about to start. Now after decades of war and countless billions of deaths that person survives hell on earth. That person turns to his friends and says. "That was so much fun, lets go to the planet next door and do it all over again!!!" So the person and his friends build a spaceship, travel across the cold void between the stars, find a quiet planet of peaceful people they have never met before, and rain death and carnage upon them for no other reason than because its fun.

That is the Orks. An entire species of psychopaths designed that outnumber you by infinity who will never stop attacking you, ever. The one positive thing that can be said about them is that they are totally indiscriminate, they are as big a threat to everyone as they are humanity.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 09:34 AM
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None of what you described takes away from the Orks. In fact, those are the traits of the Orks that are legitimately fitting in this setting. What's jarring and silly is the ludicrous terms, titles, and names that are associated with them.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post
None of what you described takes away from the Orks. In fact, those are the traits of the Orks that are legitimately fitting in this setting. What's jarring and silly is the ludicrous terms, titles, and names that are associated with them.
Phoebus, do you just hate ork terms and titles when they are being attributed by non orks (I hate it) or the terminology full stop, you would think a military like the Imperium has would have better designations for enemy units than the terms the natives use

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 05:57 PM
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...and by all accounts humanity is evolving into a psychic race that will make the threat of the chaos gods a thing of the past.
It's actually established that the threat of Chaos only grows as humanity slowly edges closer towards it's psychic potential.



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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 07:10 PM
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Phoebus, do you just hate ork terms and titles when they are being attributed by non orks (I hate it) or the terminology full stop, you would think a military like the Imperium has would have better designations for enemy units than the terms the natives use
Both, but I agree that it is especially jarring when the Imperials use those terms. The Imperium of Man is a rabidly xenophobic state with little respect for its enemies other than for grudging recognition of the threat they might pose. I really have a hard time seeing them employ the same terms are Orks without batting an eye. Every time I read one of them mention a "Killer Kan", or whatever, I half-expect it to be used as a punch-line of some sort.

My dislike for 40k Orks goes beyond the titles and terms, though. I genuinely don't like the whole "scrap, trash" aspect of their technology. I think it's a cheap, comedic turn on the old Tolkien Orcish theme, wherein the Orks employed a grim, dark sort of industry to churn out their brutal war machine. By contrast, 40k Orks churn out ramshackle garbage whose function is predicated on their belief that it somehow works. Again, it's jarring to me that this works to the extent that it's comparable to the technology that highly advanced species such as the Eldar and the Necrons have developed since time immemorial. I don't like it because it strikes me as plot armor of sorts, but I especially don't like it since the way it is portrayed (junkyard vehicles and weapons) reinforces the crude, comedic approach to the species in 40k.

The sum of the Ork in 40k just undermines the feel of the setting in my eyes. I concede that this is not the case for everyone, though.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
It's actually established that the threat of Chaos only grows as humanity slowly edges closer towards it's psychic potential.
Its established that the threat of chaos will grow as humanity goes through its transformation. It is also established that once the metamorphosis is complete the new psyker race will be immune from daemonic possession and will be able to casually banish daemons back the warp. Read your 6th ed.
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