Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

Russ Vs Angron

15K views 124 replies 22 participants last post by  Gret79 
#1 ·
If I remember correctly Russ loss the fight to Angron in martial combat but won the overall battle by having the Space wolves surround Angron and could of killed Angron but didn't. what I don't understand is Russ plays the executioner role and why didn't Russ kill off Angron?

I mean what was the point to teach Angron anything when you are the executioner and the role is to kill off.

Is that why the Emperor order Horus to rein in Angron becaus Russ failed?
 
#2 ·
Russ confronted Angron of his own volition. The Emperor didn't have anything to do with The Night of the Wolf (IIRC, that is what their confrontation was called).
 
#3 ·
As far as we know (yet we'll never know for sure) Russ confronted Angron, as DeathJester said, of his own volition. We also don't know for sure whether Russ and the Wolves were officially sanctioned executioners or took the mantle for themselves.

Regardless, Russ wanted to teach Angron a lesson, but failed. Angron didn't even understand what Russ was trying to achieve until Lorgar explained it to him during the Shadow Crusade.
 
#4 ·
If I remember correctly Russ loss the fight to Angron in martial combat but won the overall battle by having the Space wolves surround Angron and could of killed Angron but didn't. what I don't understand is Russ plays the executioner role and why didn't Russ kill off Angron?
1) The Space Wolves believe they are the Emperor's executioner's but its not clear that Russ believes the same. Nor is it clear that they actually are.
2) It's also not clear when the Wolves began to believe this about themselves. They may not have thought of themselves as executioner's until later sent against the Thousand Sons.
3) Russ was not in a position to personally kill Angron. As you point out Angron had won the individual fight. If Russ wanted Angron dead he would've had to sacrifice himself, he was not willing to make that sacrifice just to teach a lesson.
 
#6 ·
I haven't read Empire so I can't say for certain, however if those packs are anything like the ones watching Sanguinius in Fear to Tread then they're not really executioners. There's never any suggestion, and it would be rediculous of there had been, that these Wolves would be capable of executing a wayward Primarch. They are simply there to watch and report back. When a unit is actually sent to provide potential punishment on a Primarch the Emperor sends Custodes not Wolves.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Given what we know of the wolves of all the astartes they have the best chance of killing a primarch who knows they are coming.

Other's stated that they are, and in empire gulliman states their purpose.

EDIT:

Oh yeah almost forgot.

Stating that russ could be angron based on a single battle where he wasn't even trying to kill him isn't a good comparison.

Russ's purpose was to show angron his flaws as a commander, he knew angron would come at him without holding back so he had a plan around that.

It's never stated who's stronger after vulkan but I'm willing to bet angron is equal to russ.
 
#7 ·
MEQinc,

Are you so sure of that?

“‘We know what must be done, brothers. From this moment onwards, a Space Wolf must be within reach of the Angel at all times.’ Redknife continued his address to the rest of his squad, ...
‘Those were Malcador’s orders,’ said Stiel. ‘Until he countermands them.’
‘If he countermands them,’ Redknife replied.
The Rune Priest halted, and the question that had been pressing at him since the moment they set off for the Nartaba system pushed to the front of his thoughts. ‘Have we considered… if we enact our orders to the full letter… What will become of us?’
‘That is obvious, skald,’ said one of the other Wolves, a young blade named Valdin. ‘We will die. They will kill us all. Did you think there would be any other outcome?’
...
‘Our deaths are assured. But we must do this. We must be ready to enact the ultimate sanction upon Sanguinius, if the moment comes.’
Stiel shook his head. ‘I hear you say the words and I obey. But I cannot accept that we might attempt to kill a…’ He faltered, unable to say the words.”

Excerpt From: James Swallow. “Fear to Tread.” iBooks.
 
#12 ·
I was... but it seems I rather drastically misremembered parts. Thanks for pointing out my error.

Given what we know of the wolves of all the astartes they have the best chance of killing a primarch who knows they are coming.
What is it that we know about the Wolves that makes this the case? Given what we know of the Primarchs I don't think a dozen of any Legion would be enough to give any Primarch even a moments pause.

Stating that russ could be angron based on a single battle where he wasn't even trying to kill him isn't a good comparison.
I assume this in response to point 3 in my first post? I'm which case I wasn't saying that Russ couldn't beat Angron, I'm saying that he hadn't in that battle. The OP was wondering why Russ didn't kill him at the end of that fight, I was just pointing out that he couldn't really at that point I'm time.
 
#8 ·
They specifically state in Unremembered Empire that they are there to watch over the remaining loyalist Primarchs for any sign of treachery and to kill them if necessary, as sanctioned by Russ and Malcador. Guilliman and others often refer to the Wolves and Russ as the Executioners/The Executioner on multiple occasions. I was going to make a thread before on all the various references to them being called as such or signs that they are, and tbh, from it all now, I think it's more than just their opinion. Many others see them as such as well.
 
#9 · (Edited)
The new Heresy book by Forgeworld also strongly hints at the "Executioner" theme for the Vlka Fenryka. When listing the last events leading up to the Heresy, there are two that have "ALL DATA REDACTED". Guess what Legion is listed as being associated with those two events (ironic, given that everything else is, well, redacted)? The Space Wolves. :wink:
 
#11 · (Edited)
Guess what Legion is listed as being associated with those two events (ironic, given that everything else is, well, redacted)? The Space Wolves
With the release of The Unremembered Empire, I do not believe the Space Wolves had a direct hand in destroying those two Legions. A conversation between Guilliman and Faffnr, his Space Wolf executioner:

G: Your reputation as the sanction is well known, and perhaps undeserved. We all serve according to our courage...

F: You heard the fate that befell Prospero?

G: The Wolves were unleashed to issue sanction to Magnus.

F: Yes. Not so undeserved a reputation after all, eh

So that means, up to the burning of Prospero, the reputation may have been undeserved...hard to have an undeserved reputation IF they had destroyed two Legions previously.

Unless there's a 3-strike you're out policy on reputations or something.
 
#17 ·
Well Angron is potentially superior to Russ but more importantly the Lion only 'won' their duel because Russ stopped fighting making it basically impossible to get any useful information about their relative fighting skills.
 
#18 ·
Actually, the Lion and Russ fought each other at least three times.

The first time was on Dulan, prior to the Heresy, and it was no duel at all. Russ was outraged that the Lion slew a tyrant that he himself had vowed to kill. Russ stormed into the Lion's tent and decked him. The two brawled for some time, until Russ began laughing. The Lion was less than amused, and knocked him out cold.

The second time is not dated, but it is perhaps the most proper "duel" between the two. All we know about it is that the Lion stabbed Russ through one of his hearts, and that the duel was declared a draw.

The third time is immediately after the Siege of Terra, when the Lion blames Russ for them arriving late. Russ is despondent and bares his chest, inviting the Lion to kill him. The Lion is so enraged that he stabs him, but at the last second he realizes what he's doing and pulls his blow. When Russ awakens, the Lion begs his forgiveness and the two become fast friends.
 
#28 ·
The third time is immediately after the Siege of Terra, when the Lion blames Russ for them arriving late. Russ is despondent and bares his chest, inviting the Lion to kill him. The Lion is so enraged that he stabs him, but at the last second he realizes what he's doing and pulls his blow. When Russ awakens, the Lion begs his forgiveness and the two become fast friends.
Such a powerful scene. There needs to be a short story about it or a major part of a novel dedicated to it but alas, we must wait for quite a long time for the SoT to start making an appearance in the books (and that's a good thing, I don't want the HH series to ever 'end').
 
#22 ·
Where the two separate tragedies are concerned... that's the exact language that is used in "The Lightning Tower": "separate tragedies". Furthermore, the new Forgeworld book, Massacre, strongly implies that II and XI met their respective ends 37 and 41 years before the Isstvan Dropsite Massacres.

Where the Space Wolves are concerned, I agree that the language used is not the most straightforward... but I just don't see how Guilliman is somehow saying that this didn't happen. At any rate, I would it find it bizarre if, after all the hinting in Prospero Burns and the fact that Space Wolves are specifically given orders to be ready to kill the Loyalist Primarchs in two different novels, the VI Legion's involvement with the Missing Primarchs was merely a rumor.

I'm not saying that couldn't happen; I'm just saying that, in my humble opinion, it would go against the grain of what has been presented thus far.
 
#38 ·
Where the two separate tragedies are concerned... that's the exact language that is used in "The Lightning Tower": "separate tragedies".
Ha! That's what I get for posting so late at night. I meant to say, "It is highly unlikely the Wolves were the cause of destroying both Legions since they met separate tragedies." Whoopsies.

. At any rate, I would it find it bizarre if, after all the hinting in Prospero Burns
Which hinting are you talking about? How the Wolves spoke in the dropship about being the Executioner's sons? Or the ending line with Russ talking about this not being the first time Astartes fought Astartes?

The first can be dismissed by everyone and their mom. Looking back on Betrayer, they are STILL merely rumored to be the Emperor's executioners as of the Ghenna scouring. And remember how late this would have to be, since Angron was amongst the last Primarchs to be found...and he's been around for a while at this point.
It also mentions how even the Primarchs doubted the validity of this supposed title.

And of course the second part, the one about Astartes fighting Astartes, we have the Night of the Wolf as one example of Astartes fighting against each other pre-Prospero.

Why would they be refereed to as the Executioners, or refer to themselves as such long before Nikaea if they hadn't already done an action that would convey that epithet?
It seemed their reputation as Executioners was still unclear up to at least the Ghenna Massacre. As I said earlier, I can only speculate the Massacre happened after the events that lead to the disappearance of the two Unknown Legions.
 
#30 ·
Why did Russ decide to teach Angron some lesson? And as someone else pointed out did Russ on purpose lose the martial combat to Angron to teach him a lesson ? It kind of doesn't make sense to me.
I mean why care for Angron.

Usually it's been from my assumption that each legions are kind of selfish and in some ways are competing against each other to be the best legion.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Why did Russ decide to teach Angron some lesson? And as someone else pointed out did Russ on purpose lose the martial combat to Angron to teach him a lesson ?
Russ tried to use words to reason with Angron. The conversation escalated to a point where Angron made a comment about potentially going to Terra and taking the Emperor's head. At which point Russ lost it and "launched" himself at Angron, kicking off their fight. That's the beauty of it though in terms of the Wolves. Russ didn't need to make any effort to teach him a lesson there. The Wolves did it for him by always having his back, and being able to step in when their primarch was in trouble. In comparison to the World Eaters pretty much left Angron to fend for himself, with only a few of them trying (ineffectually) to reach the primarchs when they realised the tables had turned. The majority of the Worlds Eaters legion was lost to the nails, so intent on slaughtering Space Wolves that they paid no attention to Russ and Angron.

There was nothing there to suggest to me that Russ lost on purpose. To me it would have made more of an impact if he had not only bested Angron, but also had the Wolves at his back while he did it. It would have proven that Angron's methods are not only ineffectual in terms of the bigger picture, but fighting without any kind of restraint whatsoever it is also not good for one-on-one combat. But as we know, the Wolves did in fact take more casualties and Angron beat Russ. Hence why they added in the bit in Betrayer about the Night of the Wolf, where they say that despite how both sides claimed victory, both secretly feared they had lost.
 
#32 ·
If I remember correctly Russ loss the fight to Angron in martial combat but won the overall battle by having the Space wolves surround Angron and could of killed Angron but didn't. what I don't understand is Russ plays the executioner role and why didn't Russ kill off Angron?

I mean what was the point to teach Angron anything when you are the executioner and the role is to kill off.

Is that why the Emperor order Horus to rein in Angron becaus Russ failed?
Russ had his ass whipped both physically and verbally and ironically was the one who attacked first.

His leason meant nothing Since Angron did not care if he lived or died.

And Russ was NOT ordered by the emperor to bring Angron in he overstepped his bounds and paid for it badly when he could'nt bully Angron into going to Terra with him.
 
#37 ·
BS Russ was the one to strike first.

Russ overstepped his bounds and assumed that it fell to him to reign in Angron.

He taught Angron a lesson a lesson that meant nothing to Angron as he never gave a damn about his legion or his own life as far as he was concerned he died at de'shea.

Russ may have won the tactical battle but he lost the duel with Angron both physically and verbally.
 
#49 ·
One shot.

Where would you shoot a ship the size of a city to kill it?

I dunno I'd say beheading would be called an easy kill


Sure, beheading via epic duel between demi-gods. Easy kill.

You would have to be pretty stupid to assume there would be no violence. They all would know that.
1) I'm not sure that's true. Both Primarchs seem initially reluctant to fight. Angron even tries to get Russ to leave without bloodshed.
2) If Russ' goal was to start a fight then why does he bother talking to Angron? Russ doesn't need to provoke Angron, as he believes he has the legal and moral right to sanction him. If all Russ wants is a fight, then he should've opened with the punch.
3) You'd have to be pretty stupid to base a plan around being able to convince a lobotomized berserker to spare your life after you've made a legitimate attempt to kill him.
4) You'd also have to be pretty stupid to create a plan around large numbers of your men dieing for no good reason.
 
#55 ·
No, the Banestrike rounds were a result of the Alpha Legion knowing they were going to be fighting other Space Marines. To the Ultramarines, and every other legion, it simply wasn't a theoretical worth considering. Space Marines didn't go to war with Space Marines. Once the Heresy broke out though the Ultramarines adapted, running theoreticals and practicals against every other legion, even the loyalists. That smacks of pragmatism. The Alpha Legion merely had prior knowledge.

I doubt the Alpha Legion came up with it before hand, being the last legion founded and Alpharius the last primarch found, be a large margin. Guilliman was around, leading his legion long, long before.
 
#54 ·
One thing that occurred to me is maybe Russ' psychic howl which was so effective against the Thousand Sons actually made Angron more effective as we know what effect psychic abilities have on Angron's nails? Russ probably wouldn't have known this and so he howled as he probably always did and sent Angron into a rage Russ wasn't prepared for.
 
#63 · (Edited)
The wolves would come to heel after the fighting had stopped. :grin: Also, they had no problems going straight to using ridiculous force - rather than talking and solving differences or even landing and conquering at times. Thinking about that planet they wanted beat so they dropped a massive space station on the enemy base from orbit - with no remorse.

The B.A were berzerkers, same as the world eaters. Both legions would've been next to impossible to reign in after getting their blood up. The World Eaters were known for excessive savagery even then. Also, Sanguinious was too noble and would've used the phrase 'wracked with guilt' in every appearance after in the heresy.

I think the Ultra's, DA and IF were too honourable to fight other legions at first until they realised it was absolutely nescessary. They wouldn't have just got on with it like the wolves did. Although I did like the description of the Ultra's box :)

I think the 1ksons would've been awesome at taking other legions out. Most of them couldn't defend against that amount of psykers (especially after nicea). But the Emp had plans for them - IIRC, he wanted Magnus on the Golden Throne and therefore he wasn't expendable for primarch fighting.

The Night Lords use terror - Marines don't do fear in the way of lesser races so their effectiveness would've been dimished. As shown by the DA handing their ass to them in the end of the (thramas?) crusade

The Iron Warriors couldn't have done it as they were split round the galaxy, guarding/garrisoning....setting up for the heresy.

The Emperors Children could've done it, same as the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus but I think location plays a part - weren't they off at the leading edge of the crusade? (Logistics would've prevented them from taking that role.)

The Salamanders were too nice.

The Iron Hands could've done it, but due to their shit representation in the heresy so far (everyone knows they only charge in blindly and angrily) I don't think they could've pulled it off.

Nobody can find the White Scars.

The Alpha's wouldn't have needed to enact sanctions. The opposing primarch would've just found out that all his marines were Alpharius...
But I don't think 1 vs 1 they would've held up to another primarch in battle and due to narratives having to involve primarch vs primarch they wouldn't have been first choice.

So The Wolves were the legion used as sanction because
Location
Not questioning orders
Stopping once they'd finished
Small legion, so they were more expendable - the wolves losing wouldn't be the same as Rogal Dorn or Roboute's legions losing.
Russ was one of the better primarchs to go 1 vs 1 with another primarch.
 
#64 · (Edited)
The wolves would come to heel after the fighting had stopped. :grin: Also, they had no problems going straight to using ridiculous force - rather than talking and solving differences or even landing and conquering at times. Thinking about that planet they wanted beat so they dropped a massive space station on the enemy base from orbit - with no remorse.
I think if crashing a space station into a planet was the most tactically sound solution, most legions would do it, with the exception of probably the Salamanders and Thousand Sons. Salamanders would be worried about collateral damage, and the Thousand Sons prized potential knowledge and despised needless destruction.

The B.A were berzerkers, same as the world eaters. Both legions would've been next to impossible to reign in after getting their blood up. The World Eaters were known for excessive savagery even then. Also, Sanguinious was too noble and would've used the phrase 'wracked with guilt' in every appearance after in the heresy.
The Blood Angels were known for being brutal in C.C. but they were not even remotely as hard to control as the World Eaters. It is only during Signus where they lose control on any serious scale. There are no horror stories about BA during the GC, and the gene curse couldn't have been very common if only Horus knew about it, and only because Sang confided in him.


I think the Ultra's, DA and IF were too honourable to fight other legions at first until they realised it was absolutely nescessary. They wouldn't have just got on with it like the wolves did. Although I did like the description of the Ultra's box :)
That doesn't say anything about their actual efficiency at fighting other legions. Just their initial willingness to do so.


I think the 1ksons would've been awesome at taking other legions out. Most of them couldn't defend against that amount of psykers (especially after nicea). But the Emp had plans for them - IIRC, he wanted Magnus on the Golden Throne and therefore he wasn't expendable for primarch fighting.
I don't think Magnus would have gone for the role of executioner quite frankly, even if it was offered to him and his legion. His whole outlook was the polar opposite of simply wiping things out.

The Night Lords use terror - Marines don't do fear in the way of lesser races so their effectiveness would've been dimished. As shown by the DA handing their ass to them in the end of the (thramas?) crusade
The 2 legions were pretty much stalemated until the Dark Angels managed to get their hands on that other little nifty device which allowed them to give the Night Lords one of the greatest sneak attacks in galactic history.

The Iron Warriors couldn't have done it as they were split round the galaxy, guarding/garrisoning....setting up for the heresy.
I agree here. They were spread far too wide across the galaxy to be able to be called upon to sanction any other legion within any reasonable timeframe.

The Emperors Children could've done it, same as the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus but I think location plays a part - weren't they off at the leading edge of the crusade? (Logistics would've prevented them from taking that role.)
Both these legions, in terms of ability, could have fulfilled the role IMO. I don't know about where they were in terms of leading the Crusade, but I actually think that there is a good chance that neither Horus or Fulgrim would have been keen on being the Emperor's watchdogs. Both were pretty arrogant, so they'd probably feel like it was a job that was beneath them.

The Salamanders were too nice.
Yeah, probably.:laugh:

The Iron Hands could've done it, but due to their shit representation in the heresy so far (everyone knows they only charge in blindly and angrily) I don't think they could've pulled it off.
Well, that is just poor writing so far. The Isstvan suvivors have shown plenty of strategy and tactical ability. Also, Ferrus was noted as a potential candidate with Guilliman, Lion, Dorn etc. for Warmaster, and Guilliman considered putting the Iron Hands in as the command base for the "shattered" legion presence in Ultramar. He wouldn't have considered that without good reason.

Nobody can find the White Scars.
Haha, actually very true, if Brotherhood of the Storm is anything to go by.

The Alpha's wouldn't have needed to enact sanctions. The opposing primarch would've just found out that all his marines were Alpharius...
But I don't think 1 vs 1 they would've held up to another primarch in battle and due to narratives having to involve primarch vs primarch they wouldn't have been first choice.
Well, the twins have shown the ability to outsmart a number of their brothers, as well as successfully infiltrate a number of legions. As far as legions go with a very high success rate against other legions in terms of achieving their objectives, the AL are probably at the top.

So The Wolves were the legion used as sanction because
Location
Not questioning orders
Stopping once they'd finished
Small legion, so they were more expendable - the wolves losing wouldn't be the same as Rogal Dorn or Roboute's legions losing.
Russ was one of the better primarchs to go 1 vs 1 with another primarch.
I don't get what you mean by location. They were out crusading, like all the other legions.

Also, a number of primarchs, most notably Dorn, would also follow the Emperor's orders without question. Hell, Pollux had Perturabo by the balls, and retreated simply because Dorn said so.

Stopping once they'd finished? Other than the Wolrd Eaters, who sometimes lost control, the legions also stopped fighting when there was no longer any need to. And the Wolves did not always stop. See the encounter between them and the Thousand Sons at Shrike, where the Sons had secured the one large library, but then the Wolves still wanted to destroy it, even though it was no longer a military threat.

And I don't see how smaller numbers would make them a better choice at taking out legions. A numerical disadvantage when fighting warriors who are your equals is never a plus. And the loss of any legion would have been a major blow to the Imperium, whether it was the Wolves or the Ultramarines.

And the last point about Russ is purely opinion. There is nothing to suggest that Russ was more suited to fighting his brothers than any of the others were. Case in point, he lost to Angron, has never managed to best the Lion, and got lucky to beat Magnus, even with the odds stacked in his favour during that fight. I'm not saying Russ is weak or anything, but there is nothing so far to suggest he is so much better than most of his brothers to warrant making that kind of claim about his one-on-one abilities. All the primarchs were very close in terms of combat, that external factors make a HUGE difference IMO. For example, I think a fresh Angron vs fresh Russ will see Angron victorious. But say Angron after he fought Guilliman on Nuceria (assuming Lorgar didn't do the whole turn-him-into-a-giant-monster thing afterwards) vs a fresh Russ and Russ would win.
 
#65 · (Edited)
I meant that as an example of the wolves not bothering with escalation. OTT was the first choice - against other legions, that'd be an advantage. Until the other legions realised and retaliated. IMO, that'd be the best way to take out a legion - a decisive strike to start (Like istvaan)
I think the DA, Ultras and Fists would've been unwilling at first - the wolves had no such compunction.
You're right - Magnus wouldn't have wanted to be executioner. I still think his legion would've been fantastic at it :laugh:

When was Ferrus considered for warmaster? I've completely missed that.
My main thought on the IH was that in the heresy, they aren't represented well - I think it's Angel Exterminatus where it even says that the IH ship in that book fought a NL cruiser and the IH won because they had a raven guard on board who said something along the lines of 'have you ever considered *not* just charging in?'...
I want to see them do something good/cool - to show why the IH are an effective force.

What was the nifty device the DA used for the sneak attack? I read that one a while back and I just thought it was the DA's getting their moment of awesome - sounds like I've missed a bit :)

The Alpha's were very successful legion to legion, but in a primarch fight (which appears to be mandatory for every heresy book with the primarchs in...) I don't think they'd hold out as well. I'm thinking of the older fluff where Guilliaman killed Alpharius - when he caught up to him, he just dropped him. Although now it might've been omegon. Or just an Alpha legionaire. Or maybe Guiliman was Alpharius (twirls mustache)
It'd be a good fight (definitely worth reading) if Al and Om were both there though. If there wasn't a need to have a narrative drawn out primarch fight, they'd have been among the best. Cos a primarch would've just been killed with a shot to the head when he wasn't expecting it. No long drawn out fight, just blam and on to the next job :laugh:

And yes the last point is definitely opinion -IMO Russ's schtick is fighting, the same as Angrons. Guilliman's is being the universes greatest organiser, Vulkans is being unkillable etc. So I think the wolves being executioners means that they can write more Russ vs ? fights to show him off.
Thats why these threads go on for as long as they do - everyone has different thoughts :)

 
#68 · (Edited)
When was Ferrus considered for warmaster? I've completely missed that.
Well, it's mainly based off what Guilliman said to the Lion in The Unremembered Empire. He mentions that Horus didn't care that he beat Dorn, Guilliman or Ferrus (these names he mentions specifically) for the spot, but that he really cared about getting the position above the Lion. I just think he wouldn't specifically have mentioned Ferrus by name if he hadn't merited legitimate consideration for the position.

What was the nifty device the DA used for the sneak attack? I read that one a while back and I just thought it was the DA's getting their moment of awesome - sounds like I've missed a bit :)
They take possession of that weird sentient warp engine thing that made traveling around and navigating much easier than it did for others. I will have to check to see in which story this happens, as I can't exactly recall which one it is right now.

 
#66 ·
WHY THE FUCK DO PRIMARCH'S NEED TO HAVE "A SHTICK"

They're not making a fucking bank heist film, there isn't a "tech guy", "explosives guy", "getaway driver" etc. These are essentially the epitomy of gods of war.



 
#75 ·
I cannot remember; is there information regarding Alpharius' discovery in the current canon (as in, was it 30years before?) And when I mean current canon, I do not mean a loosely collated bit of information written during the 3rd edition phase (I think even prior to the 3.5e CSM Codex), which has been consistently overwritten and completely ignored several times in the past;

After all, since that was written, we have had a new Primarch added into the mix, the Sons of Horus have changed their colours, and the Emperor's Children have gone from 30 Lord Commanders to 2.



 
#76 ·
Horus Heresy: Betrayal has Alpharius assuming command of his Legion in 981.M30 - 24 years prior to Isstvan III.
 
#77 ·
Why did I not think to check there? Anyhow.

While I'm not suggesting that Horus had any say so in the matter of removing opposing Legions, but Horus had used the Alpha Legion (alongside IH, and Night Lords, both of whom he thought would follow him later on, so were loyal) on the Terentius campaign.

I think Ullanor had already happened? If so how likely was it that the Emperor, by proxy could have had Horus take command of the legion? Horus, henceforth knowing of the SW's capabilities then engineered magnus's and there's Mutually Assured Destruction.



 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top