Originally Posted by Karthak
Russ sees that his brother is degenerating, and is pulling his legion down with him, so he stages an intervention. From Betrayer:
There's nothing in that quote that suggests Russ 'intervened' because he wanted to change Angron's behaviour and world view. I think it's safe to say that Russ never planned to be forced to crawl for his life, that he never planned for hundreds of his sons to be killed. Indeed that ending was very close to Russ himself being killed, Angron could hardly be counted on to pull out of his rage and his death was unlikely to be swift enough to stop him (it is possible he wouldn't have died at all). Personally I don't see Russ being willing to take those risks.
Nor do I see any evidence that Russ actually cared about Angron. Lorgar does, and so he interprets Russ' actions a specific way, but Russ very well may not have meant them that way. It seems to me that he wanted Angron sanctioned, he changed this to dead when he couldn't persuade him to come willingly and when it became clear that he couldn't kill Angron he settled for a moral victory.
While you were glorying in your strength, Russ’s sons were loyal enough to come to him, to surround you both, to threaten your life while you stood at the vanguard of your own Legion. That may be the most comprehensive moment of outmanoeuvring in the history of the Legiones Astartes. It’s almost poetic in its elegance and emotional resonance. He proves his sons’ loyalty, while yours leave you to die. He proves the damage the Nails are doing to your Legion. He proves the tactical strength of taking an objective rather than fighting purely to kill. He spares your life in the hope you’ll see all of this, in a lesson it cost him heavily to teach you, and your reaction is to grin and claim yourself the victor.’
This lesson is of questionable validity. He claims that Russ' sons threatening Angron's life represents 'taking the objective', what then does Angron threatening Russ' life represent? If the Primarch is the objective than the World Eaters took it with less effort, freeing up more of their force to secure secondary objectives (such as the elimination of opposition). Lorgar claims Angron was outmaneuvered but surely it was the Wolves, forced to respond to their Primarch's failing, that were maneuvered, forced to leave the rest of their force outnumbered? In a frontal clash such as the SW and WE engaged in killing the enemy is the only objective, the World Eaters demonstrated a willingness to achieve that objective at all costs while the Wolves abandon victory for emotion.
If this is the lesson Russ sacrificed his sons and risked his life for, then he is the fool, not Angron.
Curze's entire purpose was blade porn nothing more. Given the fact that the only other astartes who drew his blood had support from an Iron warrior using xeno tech.
The alpha legion also had gulliman however he was protected by plot armour nothing more.
Were Night Haunter and Guilliman protected by plot armour or were the Wolves/Alpha Legion?
We have extensive evidence showing us that Marines are nothing to Primarchs, we have one source where they suddenly become credible threats. Is it more likely that every prior source is exaggerating, or just this one?