Yes, we do. We've seen the Ultramarines react far better in a far worse situation: see Know No Fear and Prince of Crows. The former is far worse than the latter.
Not really. On Tsagalua an entire Legion appears out of nowhere to ambush a grounded and unprepared one. On Calth part of a Legion suddenly betrays part of another. The Night Lords face a threat to the very existance, the Ultramarines 'merely' face one to their strength. The Ultramarines are on their home turf and well prepared to defend it, the Night Lords aren't either. Indeed defending Tsalgua goes against their battle doctrine.
That Angron had beaten and would kill Russ. That Angron death is not certain. That Russ' death would devistate the Wolves moral. That Angron's death would have no effect on the World Eaters. And that the World Eaters were causing more casualties then they were receiving.
They don't "move slower" on account of being less motivated; they move slower precisely because of that sense of loyalty. Their master's priority is to make worlds super-compliant in a religious fashion, and his men obey.
So, the Word Bearers are motivated to behave differently than the other Legions. Is that motivation greater? Are they more motivated to make worlds super-compliant through religion than the Ultramarines are to make the super-compliant through other means? Their loyalty makes them more likely to do things they don't necessarily agree with, but it doesn't mean they will be more driven to do those things.
And I'm sorry, but I have to say this. We're getting to the point where you're twisting words and literary themes in order to make a point. To do so while ignoring the flat-out stated fact that genetic manipulation achieved those results in a Legion - and others, in other Legions as well - is somewhat irritating.
1) You're twisting words and themes just as much as I am.
2)Its not flat-out stated that the Wolves are superior to the other Legions. That goes against the themes of all the Legions, as well as many of the other themes of the Great Crusade.
If we're going to agree to disagree, so be it.
If that's how you want to leave it, that's fine with me.
I won't agree to let various Legions be slandered though.
How does it not matter that they themselves don't mention being Executioners? Especially when another Legion flat-out claims it?
Because the fact that the Wolves say they're the Executioners a) doesn't actually make it so and b) doesn't make them good at it.
That's what I thought I remembered. The Iron Warriors are specualted to feel less pain then other Legions. I'm unclear on why you think that's a bad thing, or otherwise represents an intentional weakening of the Legion.
That's a valid premise, but intent doesn't always translate to results.
No but intent gives a baseline for what the intended results are. The intended result was for the Legions to be differnet but equal, it then becomes your responsibility to show that some Legions are superior to others across the board. I don't feel you've done that.
I'm talking about our real world history.
Where in real world history do you see evidence that expressing less shock at the nature of a foe leads to future long-term success against that foe?
Where the Great Crusade is concerned, it's strongly implied that you're wrong. The Space Wolves are the implied executioners, which means they achieved at least some success against other Legions and their Primarchs.
I'm not going off implication, I'm going off what we are directly shown. We are directly shown that the Wolves are not superior to the World Eaters. While they enjoy some success against the Sons the deck is stacked heavily in their favour and removing just some of those benefits (several of which were brought about by circumstances the Wolves had no control over) makes their victory far from certain. Further, they fail to eliminate the Sons, kill Magnus or bring him in for judgment.
By all means, cite what you feel is relevant.
Don't have my books so this is all from memory.
1) Russ and Angron are talking. Russ looses control and strikes Angron, violence (predictably) ensues.
2) The Wolves, unnecessarily and unprovoked, open fire on members of a brother Legion.
Both these events show a lack of discipline amongst the Wolves, they fall to emotion far to easily,
I'm talking about the lack of loyalty they show to themselves.
Oh. So you mean cohesion then?
This makes no sense. Sanction is a contingency. The Great Crusade is the status quo.
Sanction is an inevitable contingency, it makes sense to plan for that contingency. Deploying the Wolves to the Crusade is the exact opposite of preparing for that contingency. Deploying the Executioners to front-line duty is not a nessecity for the Crusade, after all the Custodes are not a front-line force.
I'm not talking about the sanctioned Legions accepting it. I'm talking about the reaction of the rest of the Legions to a sanction. I'm proposing that they would not feel as outraged by another Legion "taking care of their cousins" (or what have you) as opposed to, say, the Custodes or some other organization doing so. But again, that's conjecture on my part.
Ah, fair enough. Sounds like a good idea.