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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-04-14, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Default Sanguinius' foresight Vs Night Haunter's foresight

I've been thinking about these 2 as the IA articles stated they both had foresight and in Night Haunter's case this has been proved over and over, especially in Unremembered Empire.

Do you think that Sanguinius' foresight will work in a similar way or has it been retconned out since the IA article, as it didn't appear in Fear To Tread at all.

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-04-14, 11:58 PM
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Sanguinius' foresight definitely hasn't been retconned out, it's just a very different ability to Night Haunter's and has a far less important role in defining his character and behaviour. Night Haunter's foresight only ever covers the worst possible future, it just so happens that he himself is always endeavoring (if not always consciously) to create that future. Sanguinius' visions on the other hand are less specific, both in that they can cover any potential future and they aren't as clear visually. Sanguinius also appears to only receive his visions in dreams while Night Haunter's often occur in painful seizures.

This means Sanguinius is gifted vague dreams of things that might occur while Night Haunter is cursed with visions of horrible things that he believes will occur.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 09:22 AM
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Night Haunter's foresight only ever covers the worst possible future
Out of curiosity, what's your basis for that?



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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 09:30 AM
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Wasn't... wasn't that a firmly established part of it? I don't remember a specific source because I feel like its mentioned every time his visions are.

"Look into my eyes, and see your death."
"Let them hate, so long as they fear."
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 09:53 AM
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Wasn't... wasn't that a firmly established part of it? I don't remember a specific source because I feel like its mentioned every time his visions are.
I don't recall reading that his visions only ever covered the worst possible futures?

For example, his visions in The Unremembered Empire directly and successfully helped him in combat by seeing the movements of his enemies.



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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 10:32 AM
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I don't recall reading that his visions only ever covered the worst possible futures?

For example, his visions in The Unremembered Empire directly and successfully helped him in combat by seeing the movements of his enemies.
Hmm I guess that's changing with the new fluff. I believe that it was Index Astartes that referred to 'worst possible' future. I think it might also have been mentioned in Lord of the Night. As far as I can recall both sources also suggest that his visions were of distant futures and occurred almost exclusively alongside debilitating fits. Sounds like both are no longer true either.

"Look into my eyes, and see your death."
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 11:00 AM
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Sounds like both are no longer true either.
Nope. His visions in The Unremembered Empire for the most part turned out to be remarkably accurate, and certainly helped him to a great degree throughout the novel. But he did note that they had been clearer and easier to understand than ever before. Wonder if it had anything to do with being around the Ruinstorm. It is after all mentioned in A Thousand Sons that the state of the warp at any given time can greatly influence how well certain psychic abilities work.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 11:06 AM
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Curze's visions for the most part were awful. I'm fairly sure that, until The Unremembered Empire, their depiction primarily focused on Curze's own death and the horrors of the Horus Heresy.

I think what you're seeing in The Unremembered Empire is that the visions get more accurate because Curze is meant to die a certain way. Hence, his prognostication becomes as good as it needs to for him to elude what otherwise would have been certain death.

I like that idea if for no other reason than that it makes Curze less ridiculous in his latest outing.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
Hmm I guess that's changing with the new fluff. I believe that it was Index Astartes that referred to 'worst possible' future. I think it might also have been mentioned in Lord of the Night. As far as I can recall both sources also suggest that his visions were of distant futures and occurred almost exclusively alongside debilitating fits. Sounds like both are no longer true either.
Yes, the IA article said this so it looks like this has been changed in some way probably due to the Ruinstorm.

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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
Sanguinius' foresight definitely hasn't been retconned out, it's just a very different ability to Night Haunter's and has a far less important role in defining his character and behaviour. Night Haunter's foresight only ever covers the worst possible future, it just so happens that he himself is always endeavoring (if not always consciously) to create that future. Sanguinius' visions on the other hand are less specific, both in that they can cover any potential future and they aren't as clear visually. Sanguinius also appears to only receive his visions in dreams while Night Haunter's often occur in painful seizures.

This means Sanguinius is gifted vague dreams of things that might occur while Night Haunter is cursed with visions of horrible things that he believes will occur.
Ahh thanks, if you don't mind me asking, where is the info regarding Sanguinius getting the visions in dreams as I've not been able to find that?

I've attached a photo of the relevant part in the IA article just for ease of reference.
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File Type: jpg 20140105_141815.jpg (630.4 KB, 2 views)

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-06-14, 12:48 AM
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Do you think that Sanguinius' foresight will work in a similar way or has it been retconned out since the IA article, as it didn't appear in Fear To Tread at all.
I've not read Fear to Tread all the way through, but I think that it does appear.

The Angel had the sight, so it was said, and nothing that Raldoron had ever seen or heard in his years as a legionary had ever made him doubt it. On rare occasions, at times of the greatest import, Sanguinius would intervene in the operations of the Legion, apparently without reason, but always with great effect. Lives would be saved, defeat avoided, traps found. And it was recorded that he would sometimes give a boon to a warrior a glimpse of their own destiny revealed to him through the complex weave of fate.
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