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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 06:36 AM
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Corruption isn't a strictly linear thing though.
The corruption rate doesn't matter. The important point I was raising is that the Corsairs had centuries to become corrupted. In otherwords, they had centuries to build up their numbers, create fleets, ect.

Huron didn't necessarily amass his force in the 80 (sidereal) years since the fall of Badab. He's had a lot more (potentially).
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 06:43 AM
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The corruption rate doesn't matter. The important point I was raising is that the Corsairs had centuries to become corrupted. In otherwords, they had centuries to build up their numbers, create fleets, ect.

Huron didn't necessarily amass his force in the 80 (sidereal) years since the fall of Badab. He's had a lot more (potentially).
Well my point was that you can't assume Huron's had more time just because his force is corrupted. It wouldn't take centuries. It wouldn't necessarily take years. So assuming Huron's had centuries based on that is faulty.

Plus,the fact that Huron's maybe had centuries is irrelevant. His recruits are coming from the materium (almost exclusively) and therefore have to have turned sometime after the Astral Claws did. Otherwise they joined the Red Corsairs before the Red Corsairs existed.

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 07:01 AM
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So assuming Huron's had centuries based on that is faulty.
No no no...let me drag the quote out for you.

"In mere centuries, many of the Red Corsairs were as victimised by genetic disorder as the Traitor Legions dwelling within the Eye of Terror for millennia."

Also Blood Reaver states that the Red Corsairs have augmenting a space station with "centuries of raiding".

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His recruits are coming from the materium (almost exclusively)
Source?

The Maelstrom is a very large place. On a single station within the Maelstrom, a relative few number of Night Lords slaves are able to gather up several hundred uncorrupted youth for implantation. And that is but one station.

EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.

Geneseed is the issue...but if it (or the Astartes it's implanted in) is chilling in the Maelstrom, then they have centuries for it to grow.
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 07:21 AM
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No no no...let me drag the quote out for you.

"In mere centuries, many of the Red Corsairs were as victimised by genetic disorder as the Traitor Legions dwelling within the Eye of Terror for millennia."

Also Blood Reaver states that the Red Corsairs have augmenting a space station with "centuries of raiding".
Oh. Oops. I thought you were discussing how long it took them to get corrupted but you were actually basing the entire thing off the "mere centuries" bit. Now I feel foolish.

I'll point out (mostly to salvage some pride) that the language of those quotes is extremely vague and comes from an unspecified point in time. We don't know when exactly Blood Reaver takes place (we can speculate but we can't be sure). Personally I see it as the author being vague to avoid conflicting with established dates rather than very subtly hinting that the Red Corsairs have been active for longer than previously established.

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The Maelstrom is a very large place. On a single station within the Maelstrom, a relative few number of Night Lords slaves are able to gather up several hundred uncorrupted youth for implantation. And that is but one station.

EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.
I didn't realize/remember the Maelstrom had planets in it. However I wasn't referring to creating new Marines. I was referring to other traitors and renegades joining, it should be obvious why those individuals would have to come from the materium.


Huron has somehow increased his force from ~200 (survivors of Badab) to ~100,000 (average Legion size) in at most a couple centuries. How is that possible? The Traitor Legions haven't grow noticeably over a far longer time scale and the number of Chapters going rouge hasn't suddenly spiked. The numbers there just don't add up.

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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 07:35 AM
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Personally I see it as the author being vague to avoid conflicting with established dates rather than very subtly hinting that the Red Corsairs have been active for longer than previously established.
Oh, we can get pretty close.

It happened around 994999.m41--The Fall of Vilamus.

Theoretically, I guess, the fleet from Hell's Iris (the space station) could have taken a long time.

We DEFINITELY know it's "sometime after the Badab War" (which ended in 912.M41) and sometime BEFORE the 13th Black Crusade (999.M41).

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I didn't realize/remember the Maelstrom had planets in it.
it does.

"They’d already sailed past several worlds, through the heart of three systems. On one of the worlds, the oceans had boiled, visible even from orbit. Unnatural storms plagued the planet’s face, raining piss, acid and blood onto the continents below."

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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
Huron has somehow increased his force from ~200 (survivors of Badab) to ~100,000 (average Legion size)
I don't think we've seen numbers to support THAT many. I'm thinking closer to 10-20k. But if someone could provide more solid numbers, I would be happy to read their sources.

The Astral Claws were going absolutely nuts in cultivating new geneseed, before before and during (perhaps especially) the Badab War. They also stole whatever they could (from ally or foe).

I can't imagine Vilamus is their first geneseed grab--though almost undoubtedly their most successful.

Last edited by hailene; 01-07-14 at 07:38 AM.
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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 05:26 PM
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Huron Blackheart is my favorite chaos Marine.
That said, read the CSM Codex Entries, 6th Rule Book short story, Blood Reaver, Gildar Rift, and Skull Harvest. You have all you need on the Blood Reaver.
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-04-14, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hailene View Post
EVEN if Huron was recruiting solely from the materium, how many recruits could he drag from a Hive's gangs? From a feral world? He could scoop up thousands, if not tens of thousands, of ripe potential spacemarines from a single deathworld. Recruits are rarely a problem if you're willing to spread your net wide enough.

Geneseed is the issue...but if it (or the Astartes it's implanted in) is chilling in the Maelstrom, then they have centuries for it to grow.
Especially if your only criteria are psychosis and violence. I can't imagine the CSM are too worried about mutation, or the failure of the geneseed to implant in a candidate. Any ole warm body would do.

Another angle, although perhaps not too big, could be amassing rouge SMs already in the Eye like those in "Dead Sky, Black Sun" about Uriel Ventris doing his time in the Eye. The book describes him finding around 1-2 dozen Astares hiding out on the Iron Warriors planet. If word got around, it might attract a good 50 - 100 renegade Astares from different points in time to Huron's band... with their potential of replaning their geneseed.

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 07:41 PM
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Especially if your only criteria are psychosis and violence. I can't imagine the CSM are too worried about mutation, or the failure of the geneseed to implant in a candidate. Any ole warm body would do.

Another angle, although perhaps not too big, could be amassing rouge SMs already in the Eye like those in "Dead Sky, Black Sun" about Uriel Ventris doing his time in the Eye. The book describes him finding around 1-2 dozen Astares hiding out on the Iron Warriors planet. If word got around, it might attract a good 50 - 100 renegade Astares from different points in time to Huron's band... with their potential of replaning their geneseed.
What really weird is in the Iron Warrior Omnibus, Vaanes call himself a Red Corsair! I was like how? Your not in the Maelstrom, and you do not follow Huron, WTH?!
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 08:41 PM
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What really weird is in the Iron Warrior Omnibus, Vaanes call himself a Red Corsair! I was like how? Your not in the Maelstrom, and you do not follow Huron, WTH?!
I believe he mentioned he used to be a Red Corsair; and since they are a mostly loose warband of renegades it is far from impossible for him to have been one of them and then leave at some point to pursue his own agenda.

Its also far from impossible for him to have been in the maelstrom at some point, since we know very little about when Vaanes went renegade and how long it has been since then.

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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-12-14, 08:45 PM
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It was also written Pre-Badab re vamp when red corsairs were just a bunch of renegades from various chapters, they crossed out their previous markings and chapter logos with red crosses.

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