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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 11:11 AM
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It's "The Skull Harvest", piemelke.
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 12:29 PM
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cheers
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post
I honestly don't now how many Space Marines Huron has under his command. If he has 20,000, then I have even stronger feelings about where he's at in terms of his power.

Again, I'm not opposed to Huron being this very powerful warlord. I'm simply less than impressed at how Huron went from A to B. The more powerful he is at this point, the more jarring it is... given the utter lack of background on how he gained all this power.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing crucial material.

I'm familiar with last edition's Codex: Chaos Space Marines, which outlines the capture of the Wolf of Fenris by Huron and describes the state of Blackheart's force. I'm also familiar with the Imperial Armour books on the Badab War. I remember the Fall of Vilamus from last edition's Core Rulebook, as well. And finally I've read Blood Reaver, The Gildar Rift, and "The Skull Harvest".

That's my context for the character. And honestly, it feels like he goes from this hard-bitten survivor, pirate, and renegade to someone with unbelievable power.
Hmm, I would agree with that (And I also believe those are the main fluff sources that have been written thus far for the AC/RC correct?

That said, I suppose the only way to know is to wait until we get more novels on the character (He had a new warlords piece released not too long ago) and his popularity seems to be there, what do you think?
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-05-14, 07:43 PM
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In the ninety years that followed, though, Huron "has grown his group of renegades as large as the Space Marine Legions of old." He has "dozens of cruisers" at his disposal. He has become not just a warlord, but a power-broker in his own right, providing the likes of Honsou entire armies with which to invade Ultramar.
I just ignore that stuff as rulebook/codex hyperbole. The Red Corsairs going from a few hundred Astral Claws survivors to a force to rival the First Legions in less than a century? Bwahaha. In Blood Reaver, Huron enlisted the Night Lords because a direct assault on the Fortress Monastery would have ended with the Red Corsair fleet being blasted from the skies. That does not sound like "as large as the legions of old" to me.

I find it funny that some people dismiss the lore in the black library books because they think that it's somehow "less legitimate" than the codexes, since I'm pretty much of the opposite opinion. I prefer the black library lore because on the whole it's not as outrageously exaggerated as the stuff in the codexes.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-06-14, 09:07 AM
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I dig the Black Library novels, don't get me wrong. In this case, though, they've contributed to the phenomenon we're discussing. Starting with "The Skull Harvest", Huron Blackheart went from hard-bitten survivor-turned-pirate to "mega warlord" who is many times more powerful than he was prior to the Badab War.
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-06-14, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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So, it seems the next fluff will (hopefully) lay out how Huron is able to grow/maintain such a force, which is most likely

A) Huron had more Astral Claws around/alive or that later he gets more/retains more?)

B) There is a fluff piece I remember reading where he was also housing the Tiger Claws chapter and possibly other descendants. Could these in-hidden chapters also be a reason for the Red Corsairs strength?
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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 12:35 AM
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Only having nominal familiarity with either the Badab War or Huron Blackheart, it blows me away that BL would have him with 20,000+ marines... Christ on a Crutch! Is the only reason he hasn't played patty-cakes on the Imperium not having a naval presence that can launch him free to play in the galaxy? At this point he is unequivocally one of the Imperium's most dangerous opponents. Even the Nids only merit seemingly less than a dozen or so chapters at a throw, but this dude's ready to play with a couple dozen.

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 12:52 AM
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Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.

Astartes craves the bond of brotherhood with other marines, and if they are exiled, or otherwise lonely, it can be easy to accept Huron's offer.
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 12:54 AM
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I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 01-07-14, 05:11 AM
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Dont forget that the Red Corsairs accepts space marine renegades of all stripes. Which is a major reason for their forces swelling.
So does the Black Legion, which has not grown notably since the Heresy, which is a far longer than the Red Corsairs have existed.

Plus, that requires that an entire Legion's worth of Marines have defected in one area of the Imperium in only a century. Surely such a loss would be notable.

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I think the Warp's non-linear time has something to do with it. We know the Badab war happened less than 100 years before the 13th Black Crusade, yet the Flayer notes that the Red Corsairs have become just as corrupted as any of the original Traitor Legions in mere "centuries" in the Maelstrom.
Corruption isn't a strictly linear thing though. The Traitor Legions themselves are not a consistent level of corruption and I would say its due more to the individuals tie to Chaos. The Red Corsairs may simply be more fanatical followers of the Gods than some of the Traitors (not hard given that some are basically atheist). It also seems that corruption doesn't occur at a constant rate. For example: the difference between the Emperor's Children from pre-Istvaan III to the events of Angel Exterminatus versus the difference between the post AE and modern. I'd say that corruption opens with a bang and then tapers off, so it may not take all that much time to become 'fully' corrupted.

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