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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Default Perpetuals (Spoilers)

So in case you haven't read Vulkan's book he takes a lot of punishment. Like I'm saying ridiculous Terminator punishment. Pretty much can't die. Okay. He's the son of the Emperor. That's the genetic trait he has. So what the fuck happened on the Vengeful Spirit? If what we've read stays true, compared to what Curze did to Vulkan, the Emperor has pretty much flesh wounds. That's it. The whole story of the Perpetuals (as I've been preaching consistency) makes the battle between Horus and the Emperor seem ridiculous. Why? A broken back, skinned left side of his face, and getting your left arm ripped off would be something a normal astartes would probably walk away from. You're telling me the Lord of the fucking Perpetuals couldn't handle it? They've put Calgar back together with NO LIMBS!!!! They have dreadnaughts. So what's gonna be the explanation for the Emperor? Now that they've changed his story line to this Perpetual crap, the final battle seems ridiculous. Curze literally tore Vulkan apart and stuck him in the exhaust of a SHIP. To be honest, Vulkan's torture makes the final battle with Horus almost seem like a joke in terms of damage. Thoughts?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 05:33 AM
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I speculate that the reason is related to the webway crisis. Malcador was nearly dead when the Emperor was returned to Terra. He could not allow himself to die too, as the containment would fail and daemons would flood terra moments later, while was busy being dead and waiting for the respawn timer.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 05:54 AM
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perpetuals is just the stupidest "lore device" ever implanted in 40k history

but from what i understand......perpetuals act differently.....some never get killed, some have to get killed, to be reborn
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Emperorguard500 View Post
perpetuals is just the stupidest "lore device" ever implanted in 40k history
100% agree.
I think some day they say that Emperor=Jesus. Hallelujah!

Before i read about perpetuals i thought that wh40k is one of the best sci-fi universes... now i have doubts.




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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 08:06 AM
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Initially, the introduction of the perpetuals (in Legion up to and including Know No Fear) was interesting and full of potential.

Kyme ruined it with Vulkan Lives and Abnett didn't do much to salvage it in The Unremembered Empire. As it stands, the introduction of Vulkan as a perpetual is, well, ridiculous.

@deadeye : Horus did a lot more to the Emperor than inflict wounds that a regular Space Marine could have endured. The account in Collected Visions is one of the most comprehensive we have and explains it in more detail.

Also, each perpetual's ability to revive or reincarnate seems to be different.



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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 10:46 AM
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I'm also leaning towards the idea that he chose not to let himself die and resurrect, because dropping his vigil over Terra for a mere moment (now that Malcador also quite literally bit the dust) would have resulted in the entire planet being consumed by chaos and overrun by demons. Because losing Terra would pretty much have resulted in the end of the Imperium as we know it. The Emperor would essentially have resurrected back into the middle of a concentrated version of Old Night.

Overall though, I agree that the Perpetuals plot has gotten really ridiculous. Had great potential to start with, but got ruined with the whole Vulkan saga.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 02:10 PM
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I really hope no one else gets these miraculous fluff powers.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 04:06 PM
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I'm also leaning towards the idea that he chose not to let himself die and resurrect, because dropping his vigil over Terra for a mere moment (now that Malcador also quite literally bit the dust) would have resulted in the entire planet being consumed by chaos and overrun by demons. Because losing Terra would pretty much have resulted in the end of the Imperium as we know it. The Emperor would essentially have resurrected back into the middle of a concentrated version of Old Night.
I think the plot tool has to have more to it... otherwise the Emperor's dying instructions would have been to use the next 500 years to relocate everything on Terra to another planet, unplug him from the Golden Throne so he could resurrect, and commit Exterminatus on what remained of Old Terra. Problems solved! Unless Exterminatus wouldn't have closed the warp rift itself, in which case they're fu$#ed.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-02-14, 06:44 PM
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I'll just echo the "Black Library has made a lot of awful choices with the Horus Heresy series" sentiment.

There's not really much more to it than that. Everything about the Perpetuals is awful and poorly thought out. Making Vulkan a perpetual only exacerbated an already stupid idea.

But the perpetuals were a Dan Abnett baby. And Dan Abnett's ideas are either pretty good, or really, really bad. There's not a ton of middle ground, lol.

If Marneus Calgar is supposed to be "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible, but the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-03-14, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Deadeye776 View Post
You're telling me the Lord of the fucking Perpetuals couldn't handle it? They've put Calgar back together with NO LIMBS!!!! They have dreadnaughts. So what's gonna be the explanation for the Emperor? Now that they've changed his story line to this Perpetual crap, the final battle seems ridiculous. Curze literally tore Vulkan apart and stuck him in the exhaust of a SHIP. To be honest, Vulkan's torture makes the final battle with Horus almost seem like a joke in terms of damage. Thoughts?
First off "Lord of the Perpetuals;" great stuff and gave me a good laugh. Secondly it does completely fuck up the story IMHO. After reading the book my thoughts were the same with the exception of Horus's weapon. Could it have been tainted, or poisoned; is that what did the Emporer in? IDK as I have bounced around the series and don't undertsand it in it's entirety.

On a final note your comment on the Dreadnought brings up a very good point. If they can put back together Adeptus Astartes warriors who have been virtually torn apart (Space Wolves anyone?) and keep them alive in a Dreadnought why is the Emporer not doing this? Seriously he could walk amongst men again, he could start the Crusade, he could truely be the God of Mankind!!

Alas, the writers never listen anyway. Just my thoughts.



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