honestly... none of the primarchs could beat current abaddon - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacobite View Post
Given that your usual amount of evidence for anything you say (i.e. none) I'd not be surprised if you thought Daffy Duck with one hand tied behind his back was able to beat Khorne in a boxing match.
That would be awesome to watch.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Emperorguard500 View Post
right now with his chaos favors, the talen of horus, and drach'nyen


russ, horus, sangunius, even angron would all lose in a duel against him


the only one i can see possibly beating him is Magnus with his psyker abilities but even then....
No... Any of those would paste him in seconds.

I don't think you realize what a primarch can actually do by comparison to an astartes. Even one like Abaddon.


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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 04:04 PM
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In general, I think there is a gross underestimation of Abaddon here...

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Sanguineous came fairly close to taking down demon-enhanced Horus.
Did he?

Even Codex: Blood Angels quite clearly states: "...Even at the peak of his powers Sanguinius could not have hoped to prevail against the monster Horus had become..."



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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 04:16 PM
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Hmmm... I think some primarchs would have a much better time than others fighting him, purely because of their fighting styles. I think those that try and tank any of his blows and get nailed by Drach'nyen are gonna have a serious issue. If the anathame and the blade Fulgrim used against Guilliman can be fatal to a primarch, I'm sure that weapon is more than capable of killing one too. Problem is, there aren't really much in the way of feats for post-Heresy Abaddon to give us any real idea of how he compares to a primarch.

Though it should be noted that he was viewed as one of the greatest warriors among the legions during the GC era (that one Dark Angel who's name I forget ranked him along with guys like Sevatar, Kharn, Sigismund etc. if my memory serves me correctly). Not to mention he was the 1st Captain of arguably the most successful legion of the Great Crusade so, despite certain authors depicting him as an Angry Marine in disguise, we can assume that he was more than competent in terms of strategy, intelligence and leadership (though admittedly the last one means little in a one-on-one battle).

Though Abaddon vs the Emperor... yeah, I honestly see Abaddon going the same way as Horus did, because the Emperor would have no reason to hold back at all from the get go. And considering a severely weakened, nearly dead Emperor one-shoted Horus so badly that even his soul was obliterated when the Emperor actually got serious, Abaddon is not winning this one IMO.

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 05:28 PM
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Hell, Dorn by himself with nothing but his armor could take on Abaddon. "Dorn moved so quickly that Qruze flinched... There was a crack of sound and Garro fell away, skidding back across the bright blue marble.... With care the Death Guard blinked back to wakefulness and worked at resetting his jawbone." Page 332, The Flight of the Eisenstein.

Dorn moved so quickly that a veteran Emperors Children marine couldn't do anything but flinch at the movement of the Primarch, and Dorn wasn't even trying to fight, he was simply giving Garro a small knock to the head. If Dorn was trying to kill Garro it is likely he could have killed them both before either of them even knew they were being attacked.

The warp enhancements make Abaddon stronger for sure, but there is just the fact that he would not be able to keep up with the sheer speed of the Primarchs.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 05:57 PM
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I think all of you are forgetting that even a gene-enhanced human, if he has the power of chaos backing him, is more than a match for a Primarch, Prime example being Luther and Lion El'Johnson. If he can match a Primarch blow for blow, land a mortal wound, and survive the encounter relatively unscathed, Abaddon can too and he is arguably the most powerful agent of chaos ever, second only to Horus.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
I think all of you are forgetting that even a gene-enhanced human, if he has the power of chaos backing him, is more than a match for a Primarch, Prime example being Luther and Lion El'Johnson. If he can match a Primarch blow for blow, land a mortal wound, and survive the encounter relatively unscathed, Abaddon can too and he is arguably the most powerful agent of chaos ever, second only to Horus.
As far as I can recall (though it's been a while since I looked at that particular bit of fluff), the Lion had Luther on the ropes, but he hesitated when he had the opportunity to land a killing blow (Luther being his closest friend and ally for many years, as well as a surrogate father), and Luther took the opportunity to give him the mother of all sucker punches. If the Lion had gone in with the straight intention of killing Luther, he'd be dead IMO.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
I think all of you are forgetting that even a gene-enhanced human, if he has the power of chaos backing him, is more than a match for a Primarch, Prime example being Luther and Lion El'Johnson. If he can match a Primarch blow for blow, land a mortal wound, and survive the encounter relatively unscathed, Abaddon can too and he is arguably the most powerful agent of chaos ever, second only to Horus.
The OP hasn't stated in what state the Primarchs are. I reckon Fulgrim with the Anathame could do a number on Abaddon; if the Anathame allowed Eugen Temba to do anything except fall apart against Horus, then the increase it gives to a Primarch's ability must be heinous.

Lorgar Enlightened could probably give him a run for his money, too.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chompy Bits View Post
As far as I can recall (though it's been a while since I looked at that particular bit of fluff), the Lion had Luther on the ropes, but he hesitated when he had the opportunity to land a killing blow (Luther being his closest friend and ally for many years, as well as a surrogate father), and Luther took the opportunity to give him the mother of all sucker punches. If the Lion had gone in with the straight intention of killing Luther, he'd be dead IMO.
Even if that were the case, it still lends evidence that when you have the power of chaos backing you, even Primarchs should be wary.


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The OP hasn't stated in what state the Primarchs are. I reckon Fulgrim with the Anathame could do a number on Abaddon; if the Anathame allowed Eugen Temba to do anything except fall apart against Horus, then the increase it gives to a Primarch's ability must be heinous.

Lorgar Enlightened could probably give him a run for his money, too.
I would argue it wasn't so much anathame as the demon that was possessing him that allowed him to fight like that. Which, I suppose means that fulgrim possessed/Daemon Primarchs could potentially beat Abaddon... Really depends on how the Chaos Gods are feeling at that moment, because if they are all giving Abaddon power, then they wouldn't want their servants(Daemon Primarch being Daemons after all) to kill such a useful servant and wouldn't have any qualms about allowing Abaddon to strike them down(since they would just be cast back into the Warp).

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-26-13, 06:38 PM
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... if the Anathame allowed Eugen Temba to do anything except fall apart against Horus, then the increase it gives to a Primarch's ability must be heinous.
Don't forget, Temba was getting a serious boost of Nurgle juice as well and had just, seemingly without much effort, taken out a Luna Wolves captain moments before Horus encountered him. And even then he only managed to score a minor hit on Horus at the same moment as Horus pretty much ended him. And it was only possible because Horus tried a disarming move first that brought him into Temba's range, and would probably have worked on anyone other than a Nurgle champion. So it was really lack of knowledge of Chaos and the power of the anathame that cause Horus to underestimate Temba. If Horus had known what he was fighting at the time, I can't see him letting Temba even touch him.

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Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Even if that were the case, it still lends evidence that when you have the power of chaos backing you, even Primarchs should be wary.
A plasma cannon can also do some serious damage to a primarch, and a head shot would in all likelihood kill one. That doesn't mean the person firing it will actually manage to hit them if the primarch doesn't want to be hit. Fact is, when primarchs are bloodlusted and don't have any reason to hold back, whatever they face tends to die.

Still, I would be willing to bet that if there is actually anyone who could give a primarch a decent fight and even possibly beat one, it would be Abaddon.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

No one really likes a smartass, but people tend to like a dumbass even less.

Last edited by Chompy Bits; 12-26-13 at 06:51 PM.
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