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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 06:27 AM
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I agree.

I didn't like the change of direction introduced in Reflection Crack'd and carried on in Angel Exterminatus. I loved the concept of a possessed Primarch at the helm of a Legion ignorant to their lord's plight.

Another cock-up by Mcneill.

I liked the concept of a legion of souless cyborgs bent on oblvion being led by Star Gods bent on gorging themselves on the life forces of sentient life in the universe. Now I've got shards of gods and robots that can learn to play nice as well as a lame storyline to change it. But we all learn to live with changes in status quo. As these changes keep rolling in, everyone will have things fucked up and changed. In the end, I don't believe the Black Library has any idea or notion of a consistent plan for the franchise. I think they literally just meet up and change things to attempt to keep things fresh instead of trying to develop established plot lines. That's why the Emperor went from the manifestation of 350k psykers killing themselves to the most powerful psyker known to man to a perpetual. Or why the Necrons went from a spiteful race of dying aliens who made a deal for vengeance to a galactic Empire. Or why the Old Ones went from a galactic Empire to a bunch of shaman hippies who posed no real threat to the Necrons other than a reason to unite through war. No Enslaver plague. Oh yeah, and why the characterization of the Emperor has been everything from benevolent father to sociopathic manipulator. There's no consistency in the stories anymore, so yeah. One of the most tragic and well written stories was Fulgrim. Why? The tragedy it represented. Now with these developments it makes reading that book a complete waste of time. Instead of being trapped inside his mind witnessing the destruction of his father's empire and his sons, he's a sociopath. Like every other follower of Slaaanesh. Very original.

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 06:27 AM
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No not according to the fluff of the HH series, which has to be honest, IMO turned into a disaster and I stopped buying them long ago.

He should have stayed possessed, it was much, much more tragic and was very Picture of Dorian Grey esque in the original Fulgrim.

Ironically in a thread I started long ago (because the EC and Slannesh are my favourite aspects of chaos) I highlighted that based on reading A-D-B's Night Lords series you could actually draw an idea that it was hypothetically possible of him freeing himself:

https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=73165&page=11


Ironically when that change occurred it felt like it soured one of the best bits of fluff to come out of the HH series.

I mean, what is better than a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh inhabitting a Primarch's body, doing all kinds of crazy shit, retiring to a pleasure planet after the Horus Heresy and being elevated by Slannesh and mutating Fulgrims body into this:




Oh and all the while Fulgrim is trapped screaming, looking through his own eyes, unable to control his body all the fcked up shit this Daemon is getting up to in his name.

Sooo much better that way, and it makes him unique amongst Primarchs.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 06:41 AM
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My thoughts exactly. The true horror was his imprisionment in his own mind. But now he's just a run of the mill daemon prince of Slaanesh. Instead of a tragedy, now you've just got a complete douch bag that makes even Perturabo look sympathetic in comparison.
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye776 View Post
I liked the concept of a legion of souless cyborgs bent on oblvion being led by Star Gods bent on gorging themselves on the life forces of sentient life in the universe. Now I've got shards of gods and robots that can learn to play nice as well as a lame storyline to change it. But we all learn to live with changes in status quo.
It's quite a different situation (not only because the central lore changes (eg. Necrons) are done at GW level, where as plot developments in novels are done at the discretion of the individual author and/or a cabal of authors like the 'Heresy Team'.) The new edition of Necron lore, I still maintain, actually changed little.

And whilst I don't like the direction the Fulgrim plot went in, I'm not deluded enough to deem it implausible or absurd. I can, and have, accepted it I just don't like it.

I also think that the setting needs innovation and changing perceptions otherwise we'd still have the mainstream 80s lore which, let's be honest, was quite absurd in comparison to our current understanding of the setting.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).

Last edited by Child-of-the-Emperor; 12-17-13 at 07:15 AM.
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 07:53 AM
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I also think that the setting needs innovation and changing perceptions otherwise we'd still have the mainstream 80s lore which, let's be honest, was quite absurd in comparison to our current understanding of the setting.
Could you give examples of 80's lore that's remained in place? Can't think of any from the top of my head and I figure you'd have something completely different in mind.
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 08:24 AM
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Could you give examples of 80's lore that's remained in place? Can't think of any from the top of my head and I figure you'd have something completely different in mind.
Well, the very basis of 40k was conceived back then and has formed the basis of all the current lore. But that's not what I meant. I meant that we need innovation and change in this setting (such as the development of Necron lore) and have done over the years, otherwise the setting would still be as it was when it was first conceived.

I was directly responding to Deadeye's claim of inconsistency.



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Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Deadeye776 View Post
One of the most tragic and well written stories was Fulgrim. Why? The tragedy it represented. Now with these developments it makes reading that book a complete waste of time. Instead of being trapped inside his mind witnessing the destruction of his father's empire and his sons, he's a sociopath. Like every other follower of Slaaanesh. Very original.
This. One million times.

The whole Fulgrim going "lol I got bored of the daemon and un-possessed myself but I'm still gonna be a twisted, sociopathic dick" thing is one of the biggest fuck-ups in the HH series so far. Period.

Quite frankly, at the time, his fall at the end of Fulgrim was one of the most dramatic, emotional "wow' moments of the series up until that point... now it has lost pretty much all of its meaning.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

No one really likes a smartass, but people tend to like a dumbass even less.
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 09:50 AM
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Daemons are liars incarnate, Im pretty certain it just told the EC's what they wanted to hear. That their father was restored to them.
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 01:20 PM
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Then it's the author's responsibility to at least hint that this is the case.

I'm sorry, but if it is later "revealed" that Fulgrim was still possessed and that the daemon was just lying, then it will have been as successfully written as the "true" timing of Magnus sorcerous message in The Outcast Dead.
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-17-13, 01:25 PM
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Then it's the author's responsibility to at least hint that this is the case.

I'm sorry, but if it is later "revealed" that Fulgrim was still possessed and that the daemon was just lying, then it will have been as successfully written as the "true" timing of Magnus sorcerous message in The Outcast Dead.
Aye, but Reflection Cracked certainly wasnt the premier story in that anthology.
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