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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-17-13, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
The events of Pandorax are also covered in Codex: Black Legion:

"...Before the portal closed, however, Abaddon took with him a psyker, rumoured to be of prodigious strength and the bearer of a unique gift that would aid the Warmaster in his forthcoming Black Crusade."

"From Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor's Children, the Despoiler was gifted with the favour of Slaanesh in exchange for the Pythosian psyker, offered as an unblemished vessel to contain the avatar of Fulgrim's god."

It's not exactly conclusive, but if Epimetheus was the psyker that is being referred to then it opens up some interesting avenues.




"The theme behind Warhammer 40,000 isn't that the Imperium will one day emerge triumphant. It's the chronicle of how humanity ends, inch by inch."
Yeah, I'm starting to realise this as well which is really disappointing.

Constantly reading stories of evil triumphing over good (particularly the way the BL do it)is not only kind of depressing it a little perverse IMO.

Not sure how long I can continue reading this stuff, I love the potential of the 40K universe for grand story telling but the constant grim dark and "bolter porn" novels are getting boring.

I liked Pandorax, but thought the ending sucked. It was a typical BL horrific end to a pretty good character.
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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-17-13, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
The events of Pandorax are also covered in Codex: Black Legion:

"...Before the portal closed, however, Abaddon took with him a psyker, rumoured to be of prodigious strength and the bearer of a unique gift that would aid the Warmaster in his forthcoming Black Crusade."

"From Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor's Children, the Despoiler was gifted with the favour of Slaanesh in exchange for the Pythosian psyker, offered as an unblemished vessel to contain the avatar of Fulgrim's god."

It's not exactly conclusive, but if Epimetheus was the psyker that is being referred to then it opens up some interesting avenues.




"The theme behind Warhammer 40,000 isn't that the Imperium will one day emerge triumphant. It's the chronicle of how humanity ends, inch by inch."

Hrm, interesting. But will probably end unresolved, due to the frozen timeline for the 13th Black Crusade.

And yes, hope died long ago with the Emperor.
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-17-13, 04:03 PM
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"The theme behind Warhammer 40,000 isn't that the Imperium will one day emerge triumphant. It's the chronicle of how humanity ends, inch by inch."
indeed, you correctly state "humanity", for me that is on both sides of the fence, not just one, if you remember the conversation Talos had with Abaddon in soul hunter, that was very refreshing for me, from that discussion it seemed on both sides of the fence humanity is losing the fight, this is not the perception I have as of late, it seems there is an overcompensation for the failbaddon perception.
I admit, I am a little biased towards the IOM, but not enough to not appreciate Chaos, I really enjoy chaos characters such as Talos, Ahriman,Lucius, Xarl..., and the more cunning chaos strategies, e.g. the crimson path and the astropath killing by Talos, or the gene seed thing by the IW, immense blow to the IOM.
The problem I have is that there is no balance on the IOM. I would like to see some more interesting initiatives from the IOM side towards chaos, not just sent the GK and the IG.
I have the feeling that the author's with most imagination on this behalf are mainly writing 30K or chaos oriented, the most obvious example of which is ADB.

I do mind the IOM is going down, but they should go down kicking at least some arse, now it seems there is hardly any challenge for the opponents of the IOM,
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-17-13, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Primarch Tolu View Post
Yeah, I'm starting to realise this as well which is really disappointing.

Constantly reading stories of evil triumphing over good (particularly the way the BL do it)is not only kind of depressing it a little perverse IMO.

Not sure how long I can continue reading this stuff, I love the potential of the 40K universe for grand story telling but the constant grim dark and "bolter porn" novels are getting boring.

I liked Pandorax, but thought the ending sucked. It was a typical BL horrific end to a pretty good character.
I agree with this so damn much.

That is why the Tau are my favorite faction. Screw this "everything just gets worse and worse" stuff. Without hope of a better tomorrow, what's even the point?
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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-17-13, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Primarch Tolu View Post
Yeah, I'm starting to realise this as well which is really disappointing.
You're only just starting to realize that "Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." is not the tagline to a hopeful story of success and goodness? 40k has never tried to hide its darkness, it wears it very proudly, I don't know how you could've been expecting anything else.

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indeed, you correctly state "humanity", for me that is on both sides of the fence, not just one, if you remember the conversation Talos had with Abaddon in soul hunter, that was very refreshing for me, from that discussion it seemed on both sides of the fence humanity is losing the fight, this is not the perception I have as of late, it seems there is an overcompensation for the failbaddon perception.
There is no humanity on the other side of the fence. Abaddon isn't human and his victories, and those of Chaos and in general, are just as much defeats for humanity as the military losses the Imperium suffers, if not more so.

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The problem I have is that there is no balance on the IOM. I would like to see some more interesting initiatives from the IOM side towards chaos, not just sent the GK and the IG.
Then look at the Gaunts Ghosts or Macharius novels. Cain also regularly triumphs over the forces of evil. Further most Space Marine novels end with them winning the battle, even if Abaddon still manages to advance his ultimate goal. The problem your having is that M999.41 is the eve of the 13th Black Crusade and is therefore the Imperium's darkest hour, they can't be winning in their darkest hour.

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That is why the Tau are my favorite faction. Screw this "everything just gets worse and worse" stuff.
You haven't been reading the most recent Tau fluff have you ;) The more exposure the Tau get to the rest of the galaxy the darker they become. Because that's what 40k is. Its dark and its grim and its ultimately hopeless. Its not the bright shining promose of Star Trek, that's why i love it. That's what makes the IoM heroic, their only redeeming feature in my mind, their completely suicidal refusal to give up, even though they recognize how ultimately useless it all is.

"Look into my eyes, and see your death."
"Let them hate, so long as they fear."
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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-18-13, 12:21 AM
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The game is meant to be fun however. I dunno things like this do depress me, I don't think there should be cut and dry victories and losses in 40k.

The IOM is stagnant and the story will never progress to the point it's wiped out otherwise there's no game, so victories at the cost of something are good, cut and paste "this guy is epic, he did this and did this massively important thing without repercussions" is kind of poor writing to me.

I think it was also a very bad idea to put a character from the HH into the book when the HH itself hasn't made clear whose his allegiances are to yet.

It's stuff like this and Alpha Legion infiltrating an entire chapter via the simple use of psychic graffiti that's kind of crappy. I mean when ever you see good space marines do anything it's at the sake of an entire company, losing a very important individual, sacrificing themselves, which is good (although you do get the ocassional "Blood Angels wtfpawned these dudes etc..) but Chaos, Chaos never seems to suffer from this, especially the big characters.

The most successful chaos figures that people like to read about such as Talos and Ahriman are those who succeed but only at the cost of something important to them. Abaddon being made to look like the big mofo all of a sudden due to literally doing what he achieves without a problem, doesn't make him interesting for me, it does the opposite. It turns me off want to know more about him.
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-18-13, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
The events of Pandorax are also covered in Codex: Black Legion:

"...Before the portal closed, however, Abaddon took with him a psyker, rumoured to be of prodigious strength and the bearer of a unique gift that would aid the Warmaster in his forthcoming Black Crusade."

"From Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor's Children, the Despoiler was gifted with the favour of Slaanesh in exchange for the Pythosian psyker, offered as an unblemished vessel to contain the avatar of Fulgrim's god."

It's not exactly conclusive, but if Epimetheus was the psyker that is being referred to then it opens up some interesting avenues.

"The theme behind Warhammer 40,000 isn't that the Imperium will one day emerge triumphant. It's the chronicle of how humanity ends, inch by inch."
When does this book take place?
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-18-13, 02:14 PM
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A little less than four decades prior to the launch of the Thirteenth Black Crusade.
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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-18-13, 06:37 PM
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I agree with this so damn much.

That is why the Tau are my favorite faction. Screw this "everything just gets worse and worse" stuff. Without hope of a better tomorrow, what's even the point?
So you didn't read the farsight fluff then?

It's fairly clear that the ethereal's have another purpose in mind for the tau.
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-18-13, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
There is no humanity on the other side of the fence. Abaddon isn't human and his victories, and those of Chaos and in general, are just as much defeats for humanity as the military losses the Imperium suffers, if not more so.
Well I regard all chaos worshiping and following humans/astartes as humanity or at least its legacy, being on the other side of the fence, a future for mankind under the yoke of chaos (I am not sure but this is prob what abaddon wants for mankind) is a fair possibility for mankind, I liked the idea that the other side of the fence is equally fckd. It is not because Abaddon is non-human anymore that all chaos worshippers have no human affiliation anymore, a lot of NL for example are very close to the original astartes template,

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Then look at the Gaunts Ghosts or Macharius novels. Cain also regularly triumphs over the forces of evil. Further most Space Marine novels end with them winning the battle, even if Abaddon still manages to advance his ultimate goal.
I have not read those books to be honest, and the IOM indeed triumphs often wins but often a pireas victory where again and again they lose ground. Give me an example of a IOM victory with the same gravity as what honsou did with the gene-seed storage, Talos did with the Astropaths, Honsou at ultramer, Abaddon with the GK, the only I can think of now are the destruction of the dies irea (or somethin like that), or Alaric, the former I do not regard nearly as significant, the later not so sure how to position Ben his GK nowadays,

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The problem your having is that M999.41 is the eve of the 13th Black Crusade and is therefore the Imperium's darkest hour, they can't be winning in their darkest hour.
, Again, I do not mind the IOM is going down, it is like seeing a boxing match, I just want to see a cool fight, not what is suggested in the recent lore, I want it to be undecided until the 10 th round.
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