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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-13-13, 03:50 PM
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Will the four Gods continue to exist in their current state if all mortal (not Tyranid) life is extinguished from the galaxy?

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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The galaxy was nearly annihilated before and when the Necrons woke up the Chaos Gods were still here. They are immortal and eternal in the truest sense of those words. They exist beyond the bounds of time itself, they have always existed and always will, regardless of what the material realm is doing.
Granted, but if their pawns lose the battle for the Materium all of their immortality and such doesn't really mean much.


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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 03:49 PM
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Granted, but if their pawns lose the battle for the Materium all of their immortality and such doesn't really mean much.
Well it kinda does. I mean the topic is the Long Game and since the Chaos Gods can't loose they must eventually win, right? The Gods can't ever die, everything else in the contest can and probably will so all they have to do is wait.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 04:47 PM
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Well it kinda does. I mean the topic is the Long Game and since the Chaos Gods can't loose they must eventually win, right? The Gods can't ever die, everything else in the contest can and probably will so all they have to do is wait.
Why can't the chaos gods die? We've had examples of actual gods biting the dust (like most of the Eldar ones).
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 05:12 PM
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Why can't the chaos gods die? We've had examples of actual gods biting the dust (like most of the Eldar ones).
Time doesn't exist in the warp. By definition the Chaos Gods have always existed and always will. They are the warp and the warp is them. The Eldar Gods are different in that they were created intentionally (or at the very least, they seem to have been) and might have corporeal forms but even they they aren't necessarily dead they've just been consumed by Slaanesh (the fatality of that basically depending on your views of the Eldar gods).

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 06:34 PM
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Time doesn't exist in the warp. By definition the Chaos Gods have always existed and always will. They are the warp and the warp is them. The Eldar Gods are different in that they were created intentionally (or at the very least, they seem to have been) and might have corporeal forms but even they they aren't necessarily dead they've just been consumed by Slaanesh (the fatality of that basically depending on your views of the Eldar gods).
I'm having trouble with the whole "Time doesn't exist in the warp" argument, in general and not just as you're using it in this discussion, as it's established as canon that the first Chaos God to emerge was Khorne, which didn't happen until sometime in early recorded human history. That means no Chaos Gods interfered during the entire War in Heaven, after the Necron's wiped most sentient life from the galaxy, or even during most of the Eldar Empire... although with the most recent fluff it's no longer clear to me of the order of those three events. I'm sure some other nasty form of the Primordial Anniahlator was at play considering it's reputation for billions of years prior to Khorne. Perhaps it's the creation of the Eye that gave Chaos such a preeminent role in the Milky Way where before they struggled to find material sponsors?

On another note, I wonder if the Tyranids can reemerge on a planet once they've cleansed it of all life? I think the Nids could easily win in the latest round by wiping life from the Milky Way, but sentient life has a way of hiding in the nooks and crannies of asteroids, Craftworlds, starship hives, etc. In that case, I think some current species would emerge from the Nid cleansing and repopulate the galaxy, although it wouldn't be one of the current players as they're known.

If the Nid's biological residue rises again after a planet they cleansed was repopulated millennia after they first ate it out of house and home. In that case, then the Nids will own the Milky Way in the Long Game IMO.

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 07:47 PM
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I'm having trouble with the whole "Time doesn't exist in the warp" argument, in general and not just as you're using it in this discussion, as it's established as canon that the first Chaos God to emerge was Khorne, which didn't happen until sometime in early recorded human history.
The problem with this argument is that it assumes that the warp follows some kind of externally accessible logic, which it doesn't. For example: we know exactly when Slaanesh was born, shortly before the GC was launched. We know this because the birth of Slaanesh is the Fall of the Eldar. But we also know that Slaanesh existed prior to this point. She Who Thirsts is well-established in Eldar lore before the Fall and it is explicitly mentioned that she fueled her own birth. Slaanesh is her own father. That shit don't make sense but it happened. I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for time not to exist in the warp, but it doesn't. The warp doesn't make any sense. That's just about the only thing about it that's consistent.

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If the Nid's biological residue rises again after a planet they cleansed was repopulated millennia after they first ate it out of house and home. In that case, then the Nids will own the Milky Way in the Long Game IMO.
There's no indication that the Nids operate in this fashion. To me it doesn't seem likely that they would because they aim to leave nothing organic behind. That includes there own organisms and would logically include there own eggs/whatever. It would be wasteful after-all to leave combat organisms in a non-combat zone. Plus, they'd starve to death rather quickly.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-14-13, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Well it kinda does. I mean the topic is the Long Game and since the Chaos Gods can't loose they must eventually win, right? The Gods can't ever die, everything else in the contest can and probably will so all they have to do is wait.
No, this isn't the case at all. The c'tan can't die either remember? Yet both sides aim to enslave and feed upon all life. The question was who wins the lasting victory in the Materium. Immortal or not, the influence of both these classes of gods can be contained one way or another, so neither is necessarily guaranteed victory.


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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-15-13, 02:28 PM
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The c'tan can't die either remember?
Didn't one get killed when they were sharding the others?

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The question was who wins the lasting victory in the Materium. Immortal or not, the influence of both these classes of gods can be contained one way or another, so neither is necessarily guaranteed victory.
Well, if it's about material victory then Chaos shouldn't really be considered. A) Because the Chaos Gods themselves aren't really a player in the material realm, and have shown themselves to be largely uninterested in it. B) Because the Chaos Gods aren't in a mutually exclusive situation with everyone else: they can 'win' even if another faction wins complete control of the material realm. C) Because the Chaos Gods can't loose. Without a definitive loss state it's hard to say what a definitive win looks like.

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-16-13, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Didn't one get killed when they were sharding the others?



Well, if it's about material victory then Chaos shouldn't really be considered. A) Because the Chaos Gods themselves aren't really a player in the material realm, and have shown themselves to be largely uninterested in it. B) Because the Chaos Gods aren't in a mutually exclusive situation with everyone else: they can 'win' even if another faction wins complete control of the material realm. C) Because the Chaos Gods can't loose. Without a definitive loss state it's hard to say what a definitive win looks like.
One c'tan, yes. A fluke that has not been repeated since and had a devastating consequence.

To your second point, I originally referred to Chaos in general, meaning daemons and followers as well. The c'tan I referred to separate to the necrpns because they are no longer technically on the same side by choice.


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