Why was Big E a xenophobe? - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Fluff Discuss GW background material here. All those bits in the Codex that aren't stat blocks or special rules. Post your custom character/chapter/army background in our Homebrew Fluff subforum!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-27-13, 09:22 PM
Bruva I am hit!
 
Protoss119's Avatar
Protoss119's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colonial Heights, VA
Posts: 582
Reputation: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
Well, this is a secret and not many know, but when the Emperor was young he fell in love with a beautiful eldar maiden but she broke his heart when she ran off with an Ork.
Who, Macha? Naw, that was all Eldrad's fault. He's a dick.

Homebrew stuff for your viewing pleasure:
The Stormhunters Fluff/Crunch - Updated 10/07/13
The Rust Legion Fluff - Updated 5/19/13
Firaeveus Carron Rules - Updated 12/9/10
Protoss119 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-27-13, 10:40 PM
Senior Member
sadLor's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Reputation: 1
Default

He's a xenophobe for the same reason people are racist: it's easier.

If you have a bad experience with another ethnicity, it is extremely easy to paint that entire race as a-holes. You do not have to do any critical thinking and you can move on.

On the other hand, understanding that every individual is different just makes life harder. What? You mean I actually have to get to know people before judging them? Argh, but that takes so much effort and I would actually have to...try!

In the 40k galaxy, it's simply easier to be a xenophobe. Of course there are alien races humanity could work with; ones where it would be mutually beneficial to ally and battle Chaos together. But there are countless more that would sooner grind humanity beneath their boots/tentacles/whatever.

As the Great Crusade happened, did the Imperium have the time and resources to figure out which species was which? In my opinion, no, they didn't. Harsh and brutal but that's the galaxy they lived in.
sadLor is offline  
post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 10:48 AM
Member
 
Apostle's Avatar
Apostle's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 84
Reputation: 2
Default

I like to think the real reason has not been revealed yet. There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.) Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence.

I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.
Apostle is offline  
 
post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 04:32 PM
Bane of Empires
 
Child-of-the-Emperor's Avatar
Child-of-the-Emperor's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,131
Reputation: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.)
Not quite. The webway was created by the Old Ones and then inherited by the Eldar.

The problem the Emperor had was that he couldn't replicate the material used in the webway's creation to build an artificial bridge in order to 'hack in' to the established network from the Imperial Palace. Thus he had to use his own psychic powers (via the Golden Throne) to maintain an artificial bridge by which Imperial troops could then access the wider webway network. This cannot be used as evidence to suggest Eldar psykers rivalled the Emperor's power. In fact, although it is impossible to prove either way, it does seem that the Emperor was the most powerful psyker the galaxy had ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence.
So?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.
The Chaos Gods actively worked to hinder the Emperor's foresight in the build-up to the Heresy. Again, this can hardly be used as evidence to suggest he wasn't the most powerful psyker.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
Child-of-the-Emperor is offline  
post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 04:45 PM
Senior Member
 
locustgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Planet 404
Posts: 2,353
Reputation: 11
Default

Quote:
There are several "Psykers" of different species (namely the Eldar) that might have even posed a threat to the Emperor. For instance he was working very hard on developing parts of the Eldar webway for Humanity. (Presumably the Eldar figured that stuff out before the Emperor's balls dropped.)

Also it is specifically stated that if Humanity had not expanded that the Earth would be prone to Xenos and/or Chaos influence.

I do not think the Emperor was the most powerful Psyker, he was certainly not as gifted in foresight as he thought he was. Blinded by love for a son...REALLY? Considering the way some of the Emperor's son's were treated it sounds like the Emperor just liked the first Primarch he found the best.
Like CotE said, they inherited it

....Point?

The emp has been called the most powerful psyker in multiple instances, 4th-6th rule book and most of the HH books which mention him. Can you name any psykers more powerful than him? Like CotE said also the Gods were actively clouding his foresight. It's hard to see when someone is shining a light in your face, do you say the person is then blind?

Last edited by locustgate; 07-29-13 at 05:34 PM.
locustgate is offline  
post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 08:50 AM
Member
 
Apostle's Avatar
Apostle's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 84
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Not quite. The webway was created by the Old Ones and then inherited by the Eldar.

The problem the Emperor had was that he couldn't replicate the material used in the webway's creation to build an artificial bridge in order to 'hack in' to the established network from the Imperial Palace. Thus he had to use his own psychic powers (via the Golden Throne) to maintain an artificial bridge by which Imperial troops could then access the wider webway network. This cannot be used as evidence to suggest Eldar psykers rivalled the Emperor's power. In fact, although it is impossible to prove either way, it does seem that the Emperor was the most powerful psyker the galaxy had ever seen.

How about the Cabal that seems to have knowledge that no single entity does?



The Chaos Gods actively worked to hinder the Emperor's foresight in the build-up to the Heresy. Again, this can hardly be used as evidence to suggest he wasn't the most powerful psyker.
So it means that if the Emperor didn't have his massive army to expand the Empire that humanity would be crushed with or without his psychic powers.
I have a follow up question here also. If he has such powers why would he not recognize the Chaos taint about one year into the heresy. Horus was destroying giant amounts of planets and/or taking them over. Yet the "greatest mind" as said by some, couldn't figure out Horus and his allies were beyond saving until Horus killed someone in front of his face. (you can answer with the forces of Chaos had their plot to play that tricked him.....but we all just know that's not logical, the Emperor screwed Chaos over many times, until finally meeting his end by his inferior son because he let him beat him within an inch of his life. With his incredible psychic might he was able to foresee what my 12 year old cousin could. The person responsible for killing billions or more of the loyalists...was OMG possibly evil. Such a brilliant mind yet so seemingly stupid if you look at the real world implications of being blind to your childs evil for almost an entire seven year war.



The Chaos Gods actively worked to hinder the Emperor's foresight in the build-up to the Heresy. Again, this can hardly be used as evidence to suggest he wasn't the most powerful psyker.[/QUOTE]

It might not provide facts, but if you use deduction, the Emperor was at least emotionally weak minded compared to others. Psychic power? Fine. Most powerful, then I disagree, good decision making is what makes a good leader, and being a deity/immensely powerful psyker does not make you the most powerful or the most intelligent.
Apostle is offline  
post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 09:45 AM
Bane of Empires
 
Child-of-the-Emperor's Avatar
Child-of-the-Emperor's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,131
Reputation: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
How about the Cabal that seems to have knowledge that no single entity does?
Not really, they predicted the logical outcomes of an event based on the principles of farseeing. They didn't possess knowledge that no other single entity possessed. Remember, there were numerous warnings from numerous individuals prior to the Heresy about Horus and his rebellion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
So it means that if the Emperor didn't have his massive army to expand the Empire that humanity would be crushed with or without his psychic powers.
Maybe. But what does that prove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
I have a follow up question here also. If he has such powers why would he not recognize the Chaos taint about one year into the heresy. Horus was destroying giant amounts of planets and/or taking them over.
The Emperor didn't deny that the Heresy was going on, nor did he refrain from allowing Dorn (as acting Warmaster) to fight back. The Emperor wasn't involved in the Heresy whatsoever until the twilight of the Siege of Terra, he was too busy fighting the Secret War. Of course he recognised the Chaos taint, if you read Collected Visions the rhetoric is very much the Emperor versus Chaos rather than the Emperor versus Horus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
Yet the "greatest mind" as said by some, couldn't figure out Horus and his allies were beyond saving until Horus killed someone in front of his face.
Perhaps he wasn't beyond saving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostle View Post
It might not provide facts, but if you use deduction, the Emperor was at least emotionally weak minded compared to others. Psychic power? Fine. Most powerful, then I disagree, good decision making is what makes a good leader, and being a deity/immensely powerful psyker does not make you the most powerful or the most intelligent.
I didn't realise we were talking about the "most powerful", I was under the impression we were talking about the "most powerful psyker". Regardless, the Emperor was resigned to confronting Horus personally aboard the Vengeful Spirit years before he actually did (see Nemesis). Given, he hesitated momentarily during the final duel (not only for emotional reasons, but also out of disbelief of how powerful Horus had become and that he was losing) but I don't think you can criticise him for that.

You're implying that the Emperor made bad decisions. Care to elaborate?



Quote:
Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
Child-of-the-Emperor is offline  
post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 10:42 AM
Member
 
Apostle's Avatar
Apostle's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 84
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Not really, they predicted the logical outcomes of an event based on the principles of farseeing. They didn't possess knowledge that no other single entity possessed. Remember, there were numerous warnings from numerous individuals prior to the Heresy about Horus and his rebellion.

Right, however you could easily argue that the Alpha Legion was persuaded to make a (very arguable) but still plausible future point that they knew far more than the Emperor. Why didn't the Emperor forsee what these ancient Psykers saw? Because he was busy building on a Webway. Possibly sure, but an all powerful Psyker like the Emperor later is said to watch over and know all things that pose a threat the Imperium now that he is on the Golden Throne. Did his foresight get stronger after Horus beat him around a little bit? He sure did not see enough futures to prevent Chaos from constantly torturing the Imperium.



"Maybe. But what does that prove?"

I fully concede on the Xenophobia part and his need for Imperial expansion. Especially now that I am willing to admit I'm wrong today.





The Emperor didn't deny that the Heresy was going on, nor did he refrain from allowing Dorn (as acting Warmaster) to fight back. The Emperor wasn't involved in the Heresy whatsoever until the twilight of the Siege of Terra, he was too busy fighting the Secret War. Of course he recognised the Chaos taint, if you read Collected Visions the rhetoric is very much the Emperor versus Chaos rather than the Emperor versus Horus.

I have read all of the Collected Visions several times. However the overall 40k story contradicts itself in many ways. (Though it is probably my favorite story based game.) I always found it funny that after the crusade against the Orks and the appointing of the Warmaster was considered the great success of that struggle to the Emperor. How come the forces of Chaos became the major threat after that, and suddenly he needed to go back to Terra. You can not possible tell me that the Emperor believed he only needed to stay in the Great Crusade only until the Orks were temporarily put down. (Then amazingly his secret war was most important....Orks or the full brunt of Chaos...I would say the Emperor should have discovered his sons and IMMEDIATLY left for the Golden Throne. Especially if the forces of Chaos had decided not to try taking over the empire and thought they would wait for the Orks to try.



Perhaps he wasn't beyond saving.

He begged for forgiveness at the very end. the smartest thing the Emperor did since creating the Astartes was to kill his insolent son for beating him and laughing his ass off while he did it.



I didn't realise we were talking about the "most powerful", I was under the impression we were talking about the "most powerful psyker". Regardless, the Emperor was resigned to confronting Horus personally aboard the Vengeful Spirit years before he actually did (see Nemesis). Given, he hesitated momentarily during the final duel (not only for emotional reasons, but also out of disbelief of how powerful Horus had become and that he was losing) but I don't think you can criticise him for that.

My mistake on the above, I did not make it even close to clear. I used the word Psyker making most of my arguments invalid.

You're implying that the Emperor made bad decisions. Care to elaborate?
Yes, getting his ass kicked by Horus. Being unable to accept anything but the fact Magnus didn't do what daddy said.I think Magnus would have won the war against Horus, he was so powerful if the Emperor had simply asked him to come and assist Terra then presumably the World Eaters Primarch Angron would have perished quickly. Even a normal Astartes Psyker caused him even more than usual pain from the butchers nails. Think what Magnus could do....Angrons head would explode at least if he hadn't reached daemon prince status. Try not to look at everything based on what is written in stone. Because of the large amount of writers in this series, it is easy and appropriate to form opinions. BL has overridden it's own facts more than once. As a senior historian in my mind, I would think you of all people would know this.
Apostle is offline  
post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 04:05 PM
Cruel Commissar
 
Beaviz81's Avatar
Beaviz81's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 856
Reputation: 6
Default

Was it that smart to create the Astartes? For me they seem like smug supes at best, dangerously unstable beings with superpowers at worst.

My story about the commissars Zachary Carrus and Michelle Ionza and their life and crimes https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=123690
Beaviz81 is offline  
post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
locustgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Planet 404
Posts: 2,353
Reputation: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaviz81 View Post
Was it that smart to create the Astartes? For me they seem like smug supes at best, dangerously unstable beings with superpowers at worst.
They are super soldiers. If he didn't have them then he would have to double, quadruple or more the Army recruitment numbers to make up for the lost of man power.
locustgate is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Fluff

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome