If you were the Emperor, who would you pick to be Warmaster? - Page 6 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #51 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-27-13, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Why do you even bother?
Well, I figured there were some potential wins here:

1. He leaves the thread. I think this is pretty much the best option.

2. He ignores me and continues to sling the crap he makes up. Proves that he's...who he is, if you know what I mean. More, I guess.

3. He somehow magically backs himself up. My understanding of WH40k flips on its head. This is pretty much equivalent to scientists discovering the sun is actually a large ball of cookies 'n cream, but, hey, it could happen.

I'm almost sorta hoping for 3.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, it's a point of integrity. He asked for sources, which is fair in a debate situation, and I provided them. Blowing him off just because he's the way he is would be...weak. How could I expect him to reciprocate something I am unwilling to do (not that I expect him to because his arguments came straight from his ass, but hey...).

Also it took me like 5 minutes to get all my sources.

Last edited by hailene; 07-30-13 at 02:12 AM.
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post #52 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 10:21 AM
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The relatively sane part of me would be Rogal Dorn, but the person inside me who knows total fear would inspire "compliance" whether the populace believed so or not I would choose the Night Haunter.
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post #53 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zerachiel76 View Post
I totally agree with your conclusions which is why I put in special conditions that his orders would appear to come from the Emperor directly to get round this. I think the advantage to this is that there would be no jealousy issue either as no-one would know that Alpharius/Omegon were actually Warmaster as the other Primarchs would think their orders were coming from the Emperor directly. Exactly the sneakiness we'd expect from A/O as well
If the orders appear to be coming from the Emperor, Alpharius isn't a Warmaster. Not having an official Warmaster defeats most of the point of having a Warmaster, which was that the Emperor could retire to his webway project without being bothered. If people think the Emperor's still in charge then they're going to keep trying to get in touch with him. Maybe the Alpha Legion can head of most of those attempts but remember that the Warmaster doesn't just command the Astartes but the entire military might of the Imperium, like Mars. Mars is very close to Terra, you don't think Kelbor-Hal might try to get in touch with the Emperor directly? Or what about Magnus, he can talk to the Emperor directly across space. How is the Alpa Legion going to intercept that? All in all the Alpha Legion would be so busy faking the Emperor's continued presence that they'd be quickly found out when there ability to campaign disappeared.

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Originally Posted by zerachiel76 View Post
Night Haunter - "I think it's a stupid rumour but I'm happy that my Legion is no longer criticized for using it's preferred tactics.
For the record: the Night Haunter and the Night Lords were never official criticized, sanctioned or otherwise punished for their behaviour. At no point did the Emperor show anything but approval for their actions.

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I think Alpharius/Omegon would be brilliant at exploiting the other Primarchs and Legions to their best effect by having Alpha Legion marines within the other Legions to find out what they want, whether they're happy or annoyed and then taking measures to keep them happy.
Alpharius is a smart guy (though other Primarchs are just as smart) but he's never really shown himself to be a psychological manipulator of any real skill. Many of his brothers true motives are hidden even from themselves until they are exploited in their fall. You are expecting Alpharius to know more about his brothers (who he's only know for a couple decades and even then not personally) than the Emperor knew about his sons (who he crafted for the gene up).

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The view we get of them in Legion and then in Deliverance Lost really impressed me with how effective the Alpha Legion are at infiltrating the other Legions
I highly doubt that the Alpha Legion possesses the ability to infiltrate agents into all the other Legions, let alone get those agents into a position to be able to determine the psyche of their Primarchs. Remember that the infiltration of the Raven Guard took place in the complete chaos of Istvaan, an unprecedented opportunity. Other Legions have numerous language, behaviour and cultural quirks that would make them more difficult to infiltrate. And also remember that one of the Alpha Legion operatives comes very close to blowing his cover in the Raven Guard.

And of course you're assuming the Emperor would be okay with the Alpha Legion infiltrating all the other Legions (and non-Legion military bodies). And why would he be?

"Look into my eyes, and see your death."
"Let them hate, so long as they fear."
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post #54 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 10:27 PM
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MEQinq do you think it was the Sigilite that authorized the assassination attempts (pre-Mshen) on Curze?

Similar to what you stated, from what I have read the Emperor (from the first moment he met Curze) only praised his methodology of conquest. He told curze that his world's were the epitome of imperial perfection, obedience through retribution bringing forth unparalleled productivity.

I just find it odd that the Emperor would kill off one of his own sons, I believe that post of the crusade he would have had them act as governors of sectors, or act as overarching police/federal enforcement forces.

I truly believe the sigilite had his own plans for the primarchs, or saw them as opposition to his own visions of the imperial future. Do I believe he wanted to betray the Emperor? No. I believe the sigilite loved the Emperor above all things (loyalty), however out of that extreme loyalty I do believe it motivated the sigilite to do what he perceived as best for the Emperor...even if the emperor did not know of it and or authorize it.
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post #55 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux View Post
MEQinq do you think it was the Sigilite that authorized the assassination attempts (pre-Mshen) on Curze?

Similar to what you stated, from what I have read the Emperor (from the first moment he met Curze) only praised his methodology of conquest. He told curze that his world's were the epitome of imperial perfection, obedience through retribution bringing forth unparalleled productivity.

I just find it odd that the Emperor would kill off one of his own sons, I believe that post of the crusade he would have had them act as governors of sectors, or act as overarching police/federal enforcement forces.
For once lux your theory isn't completely batcrap crazy. Well even before the heresy Kurz began acting traitorous and then there was the body palace thing.

Last edited by locustgate; 07-29-13 at 11:58 PM.
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post #56 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 11:19 PM
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Magnus.
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post #57 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-29-13, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
For the record: the Night Haunter and the Night Lords were never official criticized, sanctioned or otherwise punished for their behaviour. At no point did the Emperor show anything but approval for their actions.
From Index Astartes: "Appalled by his sons grotesque acts, the Emperor was forced by repeated protests to call Night Haunter to account, demanding his presence for a full inquiry into his Legions' methods."

He wasn't quiet damned yet, but being forced to drop everything you're doing and head back to Terra is a sanction of sorts.
~~~~~~`

Lux, I'm still awaiting those citations of yours.
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post #58 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
From Index Astartes: "Appalled by his sons grotesque acts, the Emperor was forced by repeated protests to call Night Haunter to account, demanding his presence for a full inquiry into his Legions' methods."

He wasn't quiet damned yet, but being forced to drop everything you're doing and head back to Terra is a sanction of sorts.
~~~~~~`

Lux, I'm still awaiting those citations of yours.

And i am still waiting for your citations hailene, fictitious sources mean nothing where are the objective citations? So far you have provided none.
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post #59 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 02:10 AM
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So that's option 2 Lux is taking.

Surprise surprise.

hailene could start quoting the tea leaves and he'd still have provided more valid sources than Lux ever has.

I'd love to know what Lux considers a list of approved sources but then again that would require him to give a straight forward answer which is like asking pig to fly. Better yet how about you provide some yourself and set an example as H tried to do. Oh wait that's right you never have and never will.

Troll be trolling.

Last edited by Jacobite; 07-30-13 at 02:17 AM.
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post #60 of 87 (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 02:15 AM
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I wonder if there's some rule he's breaking. After all, he just puked up some random facts and refuses to back them up. Potentially that could lead to misinforming people about the reality of the fluff.

That has to be against the rules, right?
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