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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-13, 08:02 PM
Bruva I am hit!
 
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Hooray, I get to fight this battle again.

Tyrannus sums up the argument against Draigo, and really, against Matt Ward by extension. Draigo is symptomatic of four grievances against him I had in another thread: flat characters, shattering of willing suspension of disbelief, violation of previously-established fluff, and attitude.

Yes, Draigo is a Grey Knight, and an accomplished one at that. That does not change the odds against which he would face against such powerful entities as Mortarion, or the daemonic entities within the realms of the Gods, or surviving the Warp in the first place where other mortals simply cannot survive. What's more, nothing has been presented that could alter the odds of survival; many have provided explanations, but Matt Ward embraces none of them.

It took 109 Grey Knights to tackle Angron and his Bloodthirster bodyguard in the First War of Armageddon, and only 13 survived. As for Draigo vs. Mortarion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Battle of Kornovin, 901.M41
Alone and unaided, Draigo smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard, strikes the Primarch to the ground and carves Geronitan's name on the Daemon's vile heart. Though Mortarion ultimately escapes, it is many long years before he can enter the mortal realm once more.
There are things we don't know, of course. We don't know about any prior fighting beforehand. We don't know how powerful Mortarion's bodyguard was. We don't know Mortarion's prior condition. Can we expect [satisfactory] answers from Matt Ward himself to these questions? Consider this, found on Draigo's page on GW's website:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Ward
Lord Kaldor Draigo is a combat monster - there's no other way to describe him. He's lethal against non-daemonic foes, with plenty of Strength 5 force weapon attacks to lay a beat down. When faced with hated Daemons, his Titansword becomes Strength 10, ensuring a pretty one-sided fight in his favour. Even if his enemy survives, Draigo's storm shield is sure to keep him fighting. And on top of all of this, Draigo is a Grand Master, able to bestow extra abilities on his allies. Want your Dreadknight to capture objectives? Draigo can make that happen. Want a Scouting screen of Dreadnoughts? Draigo can make it happen. He's the best possible way to keep your opponent on his toes.
Matt Ward has a history of shilling whatever faction it is he's working on; his comments on the Ultramarines in a White Dwarf article (can't remember which) are well known by now and do not bear repeating. This has given him a reputation in the eyes of many readers as a tool and a hack. Are we to accept at face value that Draigo defeated Mortarion effortlessly while the latter was at the pinnacle of his power?

Of course not. You can ask readers to accept the impossible, but not the improbable. 40k is full of impossibilities, but the setting must stay consistent with itself. That is why readers such as myself take issue with Draigo's battle against Mortarion and his thriving in the Warp - because both are improbable, and nothing has been done by Ward to even the odds. Couple this with Ward's percieved attitude and readers like myself get the impression that Draigo's achievements have been tacked on to increase the size of his proverbial dick, to make him look awesome.

Yes, Draigo's story is meant to be tragic - he can achieve no lasting victories against his daemonic foes, and he is trapped in the Warp for ten millennia. That point, however, could have been reached without such suspension-of-disbelief-shattering clutter. It's like squeezing a lemon with a Rube Goldberg device; sure, you have your lemon juice, but couldn't you have just as easily squeezed the lemon with your own hands?

To sum up, some readers don't like Draigo's fluff because they don't believe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen.w.langdon View Post
Here is an Off Topic/ On Topic question, how long had Matt Ward been writing 40K Fluff at the point of writing the GK Codex/ Fluff?
At least since White Dwarf 292 (314?); he wrote the Catachan Devil fluff for the Creature Feature.

Homebrew stuff for your viewing pleasure:
The Stormhunters Fluff/Crunch - Updated 10/07/13
The Rust Legion Fluff - Updated 5/19/13
Firaeveus Carron Rules - Updated 12/9/10
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-13, 09:11 PM
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The only main issue I take with Ward's Codex: Grey Knights is the alteration of the Grey Knight's corruptibility from potentially corruptible but without ever a single one having fallen, to utterly incorruptible. They (including Draigo) have lost a lot of character in my eyes because of that.

Other, more minor things, like hiding a moon in the warp while Horus's fleet sails by I also think weren't the best way to go.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-13, 09:36 PM
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He just can't write fluff. It's all just very very poorly written and lacks any suspension of disbelief as said above. I've not read any fluff from Ward that I've liked, it all just seems to be aimed at a younger audience and doesn't feel grim dark to me.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-13, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
He just can't write fluff. It's all just very very poorly written and lacks any suspension of disbelief as said above. I've not read any fluff from Ward that I've liked, it all just seems to be aimed at a younger audience and doesn't feel grim dark to me.
I heard he's doing the next edition of Orks from a buddy of mine. Is this true? If so... well nice knowing you Orks.


@CotE Don't forget them bathing in the menstr... er.... blood of sisters of battle to make them better in combat versus deamons. I don't think that nugget should be forgotten.

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 01:26 AM
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Draigo cannot fail because he was cursed by a Tzeentchian daemon. His fate was never to die, but to be trapped forever.

Nothing he accomplishes in the warp matters, no matter how badass it is.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 04:29 AM
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And yet I still despise his fluff.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
And yet I still despise his fluff.
Fortunately you don't have to.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 05:39 AM
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Wut? Not sure I follow.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 05:58 AM
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We all know he is going to be a lame ass reincarnation off the emperor that's why he went silent on the golden potty. Then they added this crap to banish the daemon primarchs. So yup get ready for more dumb ass fluff about emperor dusty bones made a new son. The one son the rule them all

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-13, 01:29 PM
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I just dont get why he is still the supreme grand master of the grey knights. All of his questionable accomplishments aside. it seems highly impractical for the grey knights to STILL have him as supreme grand master. i mean shit. he cant do anything to help the running of the chapter or anything and only rocks up when he can. To me it doesn't seem like the Grey Knights he rocks up to help have any idea that he is coming.

Surely by now the Grey Knights would have replaced him? Even if they still counted him alive, keeping him in "command" when HE ISN'T EVEN THERE, just seems like a colossal waste. That doesn't make any sense to me. Also i just finished the Emperor's gift, it didn't make a single mention of Draigo, whereas pretty much every other space marine book mentions the chapter master atleast once, even offhandedly. He's not even relavent to the bog standard Grey knight anymore. (though how bog standard they are is very very debatable ). Which simply put, makes him irrelevant and a waste of time/space in the codex.

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