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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
I cannot believe you said that. Credibility =0
And I care about your opinion?

Anyway I think the Tsons are being undermined here. Alpha legion seem to have problems when they are the one that gets attacked.
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-24-13, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
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Well Corvidae can see into the future but Anthanaeans can certainly read other people's minds. It's why Magnus had to kill the Anthanean Uthizzar since he found out about the SW attack from reading his Lord's mind.
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Well, Corvidae are seers and Athanaeans are telepaths. So both would be a threat to any attempts at espionage. And, like I said, the Thousand Sons had... well... thousands... of the best trained seers and telepaths in the Imperium.
To put it lightly, I believe these would a pose a problem for the Alpha Legion.

If Uthizzar could mind-read Magnus, who certainly did not want his sons to know about the impending invasion...then yeah, it's gonna be hard for the AL to pull the wool over the TSons' eyes.

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Well, if Ahriman and his Prodigal Sons are included that changes things. Ahriman himself has shown capable of being a troll of nearly Eldrad quality. Just ask the Invaders Space Marine chapter. I think it's mentioned somewhere that he has fostered various cults and networks of information himself, so I doubt the Alpha Legion would quite be able to out scheme him (but hey, not impossible).
This would make a great scenario actually. Who could out-scheme who?

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French has pretty much turned Rubric Marines into chaos Necrons.
That sounds about right actually. Rubrics should be dumb (like low-level Crons) but very hard to put down

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Originally Posted by MEQinc View Post
Getting into the Night Lords might not be as difficult but I think actually achieving anything from the inside would be a lot harder than with most Legions.
I just had a thought. What if that traitor Raven Guard is actually an AL posing as a turncoat Raven Guard? Traitor RG is his cover. I mean, it might be easier to get in that way than to impersonate a NL. At least this way, he won't have to worry that much about conforming to NL customs and all.

DUN DUN DUN
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-24-13, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MontytheMighty View Post
The Iron Hands' understanding and technique with regard to bionics should far surpass other legions'
I'm not sure about this, surely the Iron Warriors with their grasp of technology would be, if not equal, then certainly be close.

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"It won't fit" "That's what they always say first time"
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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 03:05 PM
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Would Nostramo really have been that difficult a world to pay visit to?
While there probably wouldn't be much difficulty in going to Nostramo I don't think that would equate to the culture of the Legion. The Night Lord's aren't based on Nostramin culture, they're based on Nostramin criminal culture and while there is overlap those aren't the same. I think getting an outside observer into the criminal underworld of Nostramo would be more difficult that accessing the culture of many worlds. Though you do bring up a good point about the secrecy of the Dark Angels.

Also, though not intentionally isolated Nostramo does seem to lack a certain level of Imperial oversight, considering the speed of its backwards slide. That suggests to me that Imperial personnel wouldn't be very common or super welcome, again raising the difficulty of infiltrating the Legion.

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Taking that one level further, the Imperium had a whole ORDER dedicated to doing pretty much that with the Legions themselves. They were actually recording any name, interaction, custom, etc., they could for posterity. That would have been a gold mine for the Alpha Legion, even if only as a starting point.
Good point on the Remembrancer Order, can't believe that slipped my mind. Of course the use of the Remembrancers was largely voluntary and many Legions seem to have not had many, and many more of those that did carefully restricted access and heavily monitored them. Given that Night Lord ships sometimes lack the ability to illuminate the interior and they are notoriously unfriendly I doubt that there were many Remembrancers attached to the 8th.

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Originally Posted by MontytheMighty View Post
I just had a thought. What if that traitor Raven Guard is actually an AL posing as a turncoat Raven Guard? Traitor RG is his cover. I mean, it might be easier to get in that way than to impersonate a NL. At least this way, he won't have to worry that much about conforming to NL customs and all.

DUN DUN DUN
Interesting, but I'd call it unlikely. Firstly, the Raven is full blown missing his tongue, something that would cut down on the usefulness of an operative. Secondly, that's a really, really risky way to infiltrate any Legion, especially the Night Lords. Notorious cruelty and paranoia do not make for a group welcoming to outsiders, let alone to defecting enemies. A situation like the Raven's ends up in the skinning pits nine times out of ten if you ask me and I don't think the Alpha Legion would be willing to waste nine marines just to get one mute guy inside. Surely infiltrating the Legion conventionally would have lower risks, even in a difficult Legion to infiltrate.

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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 10:16 PM
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While there probably wouldn't be much difficulty in going to Nostramo I don't think that would equate to the culture of the Legion. The Night Lord's aren't based on Nostramin culture, they're based on Nostramin criminal culture and while there is overlap those aren't the same. I think getting an outside observer into the criminal underworld of Nostramo would be more difficult that accessing the culture of many worlds.
... but hardly impossible. Several prominent examples of this sort of thing can be found in recent decades. Federal agents and members of clandestine agencies have been successful in gathering crippling amounts of intelligence on criminal organizations, manipulating them for political ends, and even infiltrating them on a long-term basis. Those were organizations - ranging from outlaw biker clubs to drug cartels - whose mentality and culture were wildly disparate from that of normal society.

So I really hesitate to put Nostramo off-limits on the basis that it's not familiar to the rest of the Imperium, or too violent, or linguistically different.

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Also, though not intentionally isolated Nostramo does seem to lack a certain level of Imperial oversight, considering the speed of its backwards slide. That suggests to me that Imperial personnel wouldn't be very common or super welcome, again raising the difficulty of infiltrating the Legion.
There's a difference between being there and not making a difference in terms of maintaining order, though... and not being there at all. Point of fact, Alpha Legion agents on Nostramo would have zero motivation to maintain the status quo and every reason to be a part of the underworld that fueled the Night Haunter's Legion.

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Good point on the Remembrancer Order, can't believe that slipped my mind.
Mind you, that's a broad example. I don't mean to imply they could provide information on just any Legion. I'm simply pointing out that there was a precedent.
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