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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lux View Post
Lost and damned, fret not for Dorn is still alive. Believe not the words of these heretics
Thats right Locust, believe not the words of the others, just this quoted heretic instead.

As for the bit in Shadows of Treachery, definitely suggests he dies though seemingly not on the bridge of a chaos battleship. Though again, given how fickle Night Haunters visions were at times, wouldn't be terribly surprised if some of it was later made wrong.

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lux View Post
Dorns alive, and there is no where in the fluff where it states he is dead. He kike thebother primarchs fate is left open ended
Ahh excellent, this argument continues. Therefore I will draw Lux's attention to my previous posts, specifically a question which she/he never answered:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerachiel76 View Post
To be fair, the thing about Dorn about the Despoiler Battleship is taken from Index Astartes II which is still Canon. Ergo you're wrong Lux.

The passage quoted directly from IA II reads:

"The final report by, the serving Chief Librarian commended their souls to the Emperor before Dorn led a desperate attack on the Sword's bridge. There was no Chaos attack on Cadia. The Imperial Navy arrived in force while the traitors were licking their wounds. Released by the sudden disappearance of Ulthwe, Phalanx and the Imperial Fists led the Imperial Counter Strike. They caught the Chaos fleet in the midst of repairs and routed it decisively. Even without their Primarch the Imperial Fists were able to get to the right place at the right time. They boarded the Sword of Sacrilege before it could flee and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn. His engraved skeletal hand continues to be maintained in stasis."

Now I appreciate that not all IA articles are still canon having been superceded by the HH books but this article is still canon as non of the HH stories covering the Imperial Fists contradict the IA article.

If you want to argue that it doesn't say for certain that he's dead consider this: Would a fleet just sit there in space casually making repairs with a live enemy Primarch on board? Ok possibly Corax would have hidden as this was his style but none of the others would have. They would have rampaged through the traitor fleets until either they were dead or the enemy was. I doubt therefore that Rogal Dorn was alive at this time.

In addition the article specifically says that they recovered what remained of him. Would a live Primarch only have remains on board an enemy vessel? If he'd been so badly injured his could be described as remains on board a friendly vessel then yes I could possibly accept he was alive but badly injured. The way it is worded however clearly shows that "what remained" means he was dead and had been mutilated, possibly dismembered.

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Originally Posted by zerachiel76 View Post
I quoted the article by reading it and typing exactly what it says:

".. and recovered what remained of Rogal Dorn. His engraved skeletal hand continues to be maintained in stasis..."

This does not state they only recovered his hand, it quite clearly states they recovered his remains. It's in black and white, no wiggle room, no room to argue. It states they recovered his remains.

It doesn't state that these remains are limited to his skeletal fist, only that this particular body part has been maintained in stasis.

Also please confirm what these newer sources are? Book names or articles please otherwise I'm quoting from published GW canon material and you're trying to disagree with it by using your opinion. Not the best move you could make to try to get people to agree that your point is correct.
The question coloured red in the quote above is what I'd like Lux to answer please?

We continue with an excellent post by Protoss119:

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Originally Posted by Protoss119 View Post
“The Primarch [Rogal Dorn] fell in battle against the forces of Chaos, resisting a Black Crusade – one of the periodic and devastating incursions by the Traitor Legions from their hellish sanctuary worlds within the Eye of Terror. Dorn and three companies of the Imperial Fists mounted a masterful series of boarding actions against the crusade’s warships, crippling drives and life support systems and even capturing weapons batteries and turning them against other Chaos vessels. Eventually however, the enemy cornered Dorn and his warriors as he launched a final attack on the bridge of the Chaos flagship. None survived to tell the glorious tale of the Primarch’s last stand. The Chapter’s Chief Librarian found his Primarch’s body on the bridge in a chilling reprise of Dorn’s discovery of the wounded Emperor, and bore him away before the stricken flagship escaped back to the infernal realm of the Eye of Terror.” –Deathwatch: Rites of Battle, pg. 45

He's dead, Jim.
And my response:

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Originally Posted by zerachiel76 View Post
Excellent, some more recent canon fluff on this subject to discuss rather than simply Lux's opinions. We know that the Imperial Fists found his body in an unknown state, and not just his fist and his armour.

One thing I wonder is to do with this line: " in a chilling reprise of Dorn’s discovery of the wounded Emperor,". Since the Emperor wasn't dead when Dorn found him, does the fact this is a reprise (a repetition) imply Dorn wasn't dead either, since if Dorn was dead it couldn't have been a reprise as the circumstances were different.

This could have simply been a grammatical error in using the word reprise, or it could mean that the circumstances were exactly the same in that they found Dorn's badly wounded body and escaped with it before the Sword of Sacrilege escaped back to the warp, just as Dorn did with the Emperor's body aboard the Vengeful Spirit.
I suspect a grammatical error and Dorn's dead.

I will now await Lux's response containing direct quotes from canonical publications by GW. If we don't get any, I'd say Lux was still being the good little Alpha Legion operative trying to confuse everyone by offering us misinformation and misdirection.

Lux is Alpharius

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 11:09 PM
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I would however say that the old Index astartes articles are getting outdated. I'm hoping for a SMB where they take on this particular battle. Sooo much could be done with it! That and the Iron Cage.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 11:23 PM
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Have another source.

"Rogal Dorn, the Imperial Fists' Primarch, was a tenacious and steadfast warrior whose final moments were of courage and supreme sacrifice. Though many millennia have passed since Dorn's death, his example still drives the Imperial Fists onwards to fresh victories." -5e Space Marines Codex, pg. 27

The Codex was published in 2008. Rites of Battle was published in 2011.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by forkmaster View Post
I would however say that the old Index astartes articles are getting outdated. I'm hoping for a SMB where they take on this particular battle. Sooo much could be done with it! That and the Iron Cage.
Fair point but as I've said previously, this particular fluff hasn't been updated so it's still canon.

Totally agree about the SMB book and the Iron Cage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss119 View Post
Have another source.

"Rogal Dorn, the Imperial Fists' Primarch, was a tenacious and steadfast warrior whose final moments were of courage and supreme sacrifice. Though many millennia have passed since Dorn's death, his example still drives the Imperial Fists onwards to fresh victories." -5e Space Marines Codex, pg. 27

The Codex was published in 2008. Rites of Battle was published in 2011.
More excellent fluff finding Protoss. +rep

There seems to be a large amount of tumbleweed from Alpharius, oops I mean Lux and his/her Dorn is alive theory. Still waiting for these newer sources she/he has referred to. I won't hold my breath eh?

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Last edited by zerachiel76; 06-14-13 at 11:32 PM.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-14-13, 11:38 PM
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For emperors sake.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL OR LUX
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