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Who would win? Spartan or space marines? In general

  • Spartans

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Spartan II's VS space marines?

11K views 73 replies 30 participants last post by  ICatoSicarius235 
#1 ·
Who would win in a fight? And why?
A typical Spartan 2 from the halo series, like master chief, or a typical space marine
Or how about a typical Spartan squad VS a typical space marine tactical squad, with say a missile launcher and melta gun
Or what about the astartes against the entire Spartan program?

I vote space marines on all accounts but won't say why exactly now as my phones low on charge.
 
#2 ·
Well this has really been done to death...

The Spartans will probably be more agile (though maybe not, SM are boss) but the SM will have the strength and toughness advantage. In a prolonged fight both of them will have wounds healed (one by tech and one by biology), but in general it depends on where. In an enclosed space? Cage match style? SM all the way. In a more open area it would be harder to tell.

Squad vs squad though I think SM would win hands down.

And how many Astartes? All of them? Vs. all the Spartans? Yeah, they would annihilate them.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Master Chief is not you typical Spartan 2 as he lived, the typical spartan died. 2s MAY be a little more agile but in a pure endurance, strength, intelligence , no weapons armor, or any objects that can be used to beat/strangle the other to death, besides the floor. The SMs going to win.... Spartan 2s were little more than enhanced humans, while SMs have gone beyond human. Both in armor...well the SMs going to crush the MJOLNIR armor like a coke can.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Yeah. I started one of these a couple of years back. It went on for 5 pages. I wasn't even sure if a spartan vs space marine thread had been done before I even did mine.

Anyway, I'd have to go with Space Marine. More strength, better weapons, they've got better armor by far. All the spartans have is agility really. Also spartan lasers. I see those as being their version of a lascannon. Even with a spartan laser, squad v squad, SM win. One on one with a spartan laser, that one would be tough to call.

Either way, there are a variety of factors that cannot be taken into account since they're from two different universes.

As for primarchs vs spartans... heh... we all know how that would turn out.

EDIT: Found the link. Here
 
#8 ·
Well maybe it's been done before but I haven't been on Heresy long enough to see one, so I have no trouble with this.

Spartans are probably more agile, likely just as strong, and have the advantage of shields as well. But their ballistics weaponry probably has the same statlines as stub guns and their close combat armament is lacking.

Tough call but... marines.
 
#10 ·
Why I let myself get sucked into these I'll never know, but this is by far the stupidest one.

More agile and likely as strong......You clearly have no idea how insanely fast and strong Astartes are. I've always liked this quote from Know No Fear to really show just how fast an Astartes reactions are, nothing I've played or seen shows the Spartans to have even remotely comparable reflexes.

The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.
Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.

He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.
All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.
 
#16 ·
The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.

Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.

He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.

All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.
So how fast are Eldar, Daemons, and Tyranids by implication?

Master Chief is a good fight, well trained, and hard to kill. that's all he has, a simple bolt round would end his life. +1 SM
Last time I checked, the Covenant used used plasma weaponry almost exclusively...which pwn Space Marines....which Spartans have no problem using because they are not space knights that hate everything that is of xenos origin.

Of course, there is going to be some serious hand waving momentarily about Covenant plasma weapons "not being the same as" or "inferior to" plasma weapons in the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

I would also point out that the Gaunt and his posse of badasses curb stomp a whole squad of Chaos Space Marines in a swamp with basically no gear in Traitor General. So much for being more than human.

In sum, I think that there are fundamental problems that undermine any sort of comparison between the Halo and the Warhammer 40,000 universe, particularly with regard to Spartans and Space Marines. Clearly, much of the "literature" that features Space Marines is for ****s to **** *** at night. The reverse is true with game play--Spartans are clearly better. Good. Now please lock this thread so we can get on with our lives.
 
#11 ·
One thing I noticed when reading your thread death jester is that alot of people say a Spartan with a spartan laser would win- that annoyed me because if a spartan had s Spartan laser- wouldn't the space marine have a lascannon, which, I believe, has no charge up time?!?!
 
#14 · (Edited)
In a fight, Space Marine, no question, what's a piddly little automatic rifle going to do against a rapid fire grenade launcher? But there are other places where a Spartan might win. In activities such as volleyball, tennis, those annoying memory puzzles and charades, Spartans could probably wipe the floor with your average space marine.

They have better manoeuvrability and have the whole 'yay teamwork' thing drilled into their skulls from day one until death. Space Marines are a little more willing to accept that one of their number can make mistakes or even become an enemy under certain circumstances, so they trust one another a little less and they aren't trained as much to work as a team.

Spartans are also able to function better with non-spartan personell that Marines with 'mortals'. The average spartan might try to help or protect a UNSC marine or civilian if it didn't jepordize the mission at hand, but most space marines wouldn't break stride trampling the guardsmen and civilians so he could talk to his CO easier or to kill one ork.

To those who would argue about Master Chief's exploits and such, take one look at the (in some cases horrendously broken and confused) fluff of characters such as Mephiston, Lysander, various space wolves and *shudder* Draigo. We're talking guys who literally live in hell and habitually slay monsters the size mountains or hold of a bajillion enemies for months by themselves with their bare hands. So, the 'best' of the spartans vs the best of the space marines, a spartan is considered impressive for killing a handful eight foot saurian guys, using machine guns, pistols and grenades, but a space marine can vaporise four or five of the physical manifestations of hell with knife and an angry yell.
 
#15 ·
I vote Space Marines for the simple fact that they are covered in cermite armor and yet can move as flexible as a normal soldier would in full Battle-Rattle. Master Chief is a good fight, well trained, and hard to kill. that's all he has, a simple bolt round would end his life. +1 SM
 
#17 ·
And yet, its true the covenant plasma weapons are not the same as warhammer 40K weapons. Temperature for one. Compare plasma weapon overheating to warhammer 40K plasma weapon overheating. One doesn't do anything. Doesn't even harm the shields. The other has the possibility of injuring or killing the wielder. Put it into a spartans hands. He would be annihilated by the overheating plasma gun from warhammer. A charged shot from a plasma pistol only damages shields of a spartan. Put him up against a suit of power armor. It would melt the portion it hit, but it wouldn't do anything to the skin underneat. Charged shot from a warhammer plasma weapon. It can go through tank armor. Adamantium armor (harder than the armor they use in halo) A plasma weapon from halo would not be able to achieve that. It would melt the portion slightly. That is about it.

Space Marines can survive wounds that would kill a spartan several times over. That is how much more augmented they are. A spartan can lose a limb, but he'd be in shock (evidence from Fall of Reach). A Space Marine can lose an arm and continue fighting. He could lose a leg and keep fighting. He can lose a heart and keep fighting, because he has a second there to pick up the slack. I'd like to see a spartan come close to this. Space Marine wounds clot almost instantly. Not a spartans wounds.

Really the only fundamental problem that hampers these comparisons is the fact that they are from two different universes. One is set further in the future than the other. The thing that makes these two comparisons so prevalent is the fact that they are both augmented super warriors. They both have plenty of fluff behind them to easily make these comparisons. By mere fluff alone we can see who is better. Gameplay isn't a basis to say who is better. Besides, those of us who support the Space Marines can cite Space Marine the game as proof to the contrary.

We all know that actual named, important characters like gaunt are uber badasses with much experience fighting on the front lines. Hell, if you make it that long as a guardsmen, then you'd definitely be a defined bad ass. It'd be no surprise if they could take out a squad of chaos marines.

I disagree that spartans are better. They are not. You can believe what you want though. Its your opinion after all.
 
#23 ·
And yet, its true the covenant plasma weapons are not the same as warhammer 40K weapons. Temperature for one. Compare plasma weapon overheating to warhammer 40K plasma weapon overheating. One doesn't do anything. Doesn't even harm the shields. The other has the possibility of injuring or killing the wielder. Put it into a spartans hands. He would be annihilated by the overheating plasma gun from warhammer. A charged shot from a plasma pistol only damages shields of a spartan. Put him up against a suit of power armor. It would melt the portion it hit, but it wouldn't do anything to the skin underneat. Charged shot from a warhammer plasma weapon. It can go through tank armor. Adamantium armor (harder than the armor they use in halo) A plasma weapon from halo would not be able to achieve that. It would melt the portion slightly. That is about it.
Maybe that just means that they have better cooling technology. The Tau have plasma guns that don't "Get Hot". Those guns are still pretty good. In fact, I would argue that they are better because their use doesn't put a multi-billion dollar soldier's life on the line. The Imperium might do that if this Games Workshop didn't write this onto every book they put out:

"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war."

Human civilization is basically in a death spiral that it may or may not recover from. And supposing that it only melted the armor, that would still make it very difficult to move....because your armor would still have some serious problems that would impede it's ability to function. Besides, if one side only has plasma guns, what sort of insane game designer would make them the end all be all of everything? This isn't X-Com.

Space Marines can survive wounds that would kill a spartan several times over. That is how much more augmented they are. A spartan can lose a limb, but he'd be in shock (evidence from Fall of Reach). A Space Marine can lose an arm and continue fighting. He could lose a leg and keep fighting. He can lose a heart and keep fighting, because he has a second there to pick up the slack. I'd like to see a spartan come close to this. Space Marine wounds clot almost instantly. Not a spartans wounds.
No argument there.

Really the only fundamental problem that hampers these comparisons is the fact that they are from two different universes. One is set further in the future than the other. The thing that makes these two comparisons so prevalent is the fact that they are both augmented super warriors.
Wait. I read that and thought I saw reason--these are two completely different settings that diverge wildly in terms of game philosophy, world outlook, target audience, story arcs, and so on. But then--

By mere fluff alone we can see who is better.
lulz

Gameplay isn't a basis to say who is better. Besides, those of us who support the Space Marines can cite Space Marine the game as proof to the contrary.
Yeah, I played that game. In fact, Space Marine is right across from me. That guy is a chump, even compared to the "more realistic" protagonist of Halo: Reach. Besides, you fight more people and the AI is better/more varied in Halo.

We all know that actual named, important characters like gaunt are uber badasses with much experience fighting on the front lines. Hell, if you make it that long as a guardsmen, then you'd definitely be a defined bad ass. It'd be no surprise if they could take out a squad of chaos marines.
We all know that actual named, important product flagship products are uber badasses with lots of fan fapping. It'd be a huge surprise if normal people could take out a squad of chaos space marines.


I disagree that spartans are better. They are not. You can believe what you want though. Its your opinion after all.
Way to make your opinion objective fact and shit on people who disagree in a make believe world. Bravo!
 
#19 ·
Just would like to point out that Gaunt and his commando squad took out 5 CSM. With the help of a whole village of native huntsmen to distract most of the CSM. IIRC something like 350+ village people were killed by the CSM, wasnt like Gaunt and Co. killed them all by themsleves with no assistance from the villagers. Even if all the villagers did was act as meatshields.
 
#20 · (Edited)
A Spartan 2 can flip over a Scorpion tank, which weighs about 72 tons. I can't see a Space Marine doing the same.

If you're quoting Spess Mehren books, the Halo books provide some good insight as to how insanely strong Spartans are...

Lets also not forget the text-form fellatio that authors tend to give Space Marines. Space Marines are tough, but if you want me to actually believe getting hit in the chest with a lascannon (Which can easily decommission a tank) isn't going to put them down, I have bad news.

Meanwhile, there are several occasions when Spartans take full-frontal hits by Hunters, who are wielding a weapon way stronger than any 40k plasma gun, and live. Spartans have shields too. And they can deflect air-to-surface missiles with their bare hands mid-flight. Thats how fast they are, and how accurate their reflexes are. The entire human race is getting completely ruined by the Covenant, and the Spartans can walk in and kill hundreds of them and come out with barely scratches.
 
#21 ·
A spartan can flip a tank in the game. They kind of had to add that mechanic so you could continue to use them if they flipped. In the books, they have never done such a thing. Ever. I doubt they even could. Hell, theres no way a spartan II could even flip an elephant, yet they added that mechanic in the off chance that you were ever able to flip one in the first place. We're going off books here, not games dude.

And if you believe a spartan can take a lascannon shot and live, then I have bad news for you as well. A spartan with shields has never been able to take a head on fuel rod shot and live. Only one spartan two lived through it, and he had a jackal shield in front of him, as well as his own shield. And he lost an arm in the process, and was in shock afterward. It would do a space marine quite a bit of damage to his armor, and the flesh underneath, but he'd get back up and be pissed as ever. A spartan II would be dead.

John got lucky with the air-to-surface missile, because he had Cortana's help in calculating what it would take TO deflect it. He even did himself a shit load of damage in the process. Even says that he got lucky in the book, IIRC. If he hadn't had Cortana, he would have died on that training ground. I'm not saying a space marine could do it, because I highly doubt he could. They'd both be just as dead. But John having the help of the smartest AI around helps a helluva lot.

If the spartans weren't in the direct line of fire (i.e., in their own element (i.e. their own terms)) sure they could take a hundred+ covenant and come out with a few scratches, burns, and dents. In the direct line of fire, they'd be dead like any other. A space marine would be wading through, letting his armor soak it all up, and would be able to take a few down with him. In his own element, on his own terms, theyd be dead, and the space marine would be even less harmed than the spartan.

Anything I missed? No? Good.
 
#29 ·
Librarians, dreadnoughts, rapid-fire rocket lauchers as basic weapons, iron halo, storm shields, power fists, power swords, chain swords as basic
Are we found in halo reach or 4? 4s the most recent and no armour lock there! And it's not invisibility, it's active camo, big difference, and space marines have super eyesight, they could probs detect re sensitive ripples, in fact, in Horus rising, at the start, I believe it's loken who kills some active camouflaged warriors, anyway, active camo is covenant tech, not UNSC. Jet packs are very different to jump packs, jumps provide forward momentum, jet packs go up. Space marines can sprint, jump, do back flip and every thing as well.
Have I missed anything?
 
#31 · (Edited)
From flipping 72 ton scorpion tanks, to being able to drop the atmosphere and land on the surface of the planet alive and in relatively good condition is what spartans can and have done (without wearing armor).

Those saying Astartes are stronger or faster is merely an opinion, going by the books and the game which in that mythos is canon shows the spartans to be physically superior.

Saying warhammer plasma guns are superior is once again pure speculation, one could easily state that convenant technology eclipses anything that the imperium of man has shown so why not their plasma weapons as well.

Spartan armor and shields have shown to be able to withstand direct hits from hunter plasma cannons, a space marine isnt going to get through that easily by any means.

If anything it would be the spartans that are dancing circles around the astartes, while pulling their appendages off their bodies.
 
#33 · (Edited)
It is okay Darkreever, a lack of response to some thing is still a response. I appreciate your open mindedness, as well as your fairly well formulated response. Keep it up mate!

I just have this inkling, that some individuals within this thread associate their own identity with warhammer 40k to such a degree that any inclination of it as a mythos being inferior is a slight directly against their own value.

Darkeever, how much do you drink?

However I digress, spartans in the books as well as the games, have shown that their shields are quite formidable. It is almost comical how emotionaly strung the responses become of certain individuals when comparing concept versus concept, iron halo versus "halo shields". Yes let us claim each opposing argument is discrediting the opposing mythos's fluff, while exalting purely their own. When the majority of in text examples of the Iron Halo's formidably in regards to kinetic absorption varies so widely from text to text, that drawing any sort of reliable average would be comical.

Absolutely Beautiful.
 
#34 ·
Thebtrick is you are asking what the opinion of one to another, when not everyome knows. I haven't played Halo or read halo books so i don't know.

However i have read near enough EVERYTHING space marine based, am experienced in the quantified accounts of Space Marines equipment (i.e how effective Boltguns are in comparison to todays weapons). I struggle to think of anything that is anywhere near capable of beating them, outside of massively outweighed numbers, or supernatural strength- daemons, nids, etc.



 
#35 ·
I tend to see Spartans as vastly superior custodes, in that they operate individually (after reach was glassed), hinging upon their superior intellect, physicality, and tactics.

I by no means discredit the speed, strength, and power of a astartes, it is just that the spartans showed feats that trumped anything I have seen of any space marine (barring special characters).

Some people like to discredit the game as canon, yet it is canon when it comes to the halo mythos. Flipping 72 ton scorpion tanks (in game), to survivng dropping from the atmosphere without armor (books), to being able to rip elites apart by the dozens (books).

I think what needs to be established here, really is the power, strength, and speed of an elite, to demonstrate just how powerful spartans are by comparison (fall of reach).

Speed wise spartans were able to outrun covenant hover bikes, and out maneuver incoming missiles, rockets, and other ordinance.

I just take it as I see it, and spartans trump astartes in individual power, however in a war a legion/chapter would win due to superior numbers and space craft.

A better comparison would have been the Human Federation of Old (the one which fought the forerunners) Versus the Imperium of man.
 
#36 ·
Hate to be the bearer of prejudice, but your 'seeing it' is notoriously... how we say... 'out there' Lux.

The game is easy enough to discount as canon: gameplay sacrifices story.

A heavy stubber is the equivalent of a 50 cal hmg. That means a Guardsman can punch as hard as a .50. One round to the chest just disintegrates the standard human, yet it takes 2 hits to reliably, mathematically kill a guardsman by wounds, and 33% of those shots are saved, essentially takes 6 hits to reliably guarantee a kill of a guardsman with a 50 cal gun. A guardsman is, admittedly, an immensely fit, highly skilled individual (according to Cadia and Tanith as example, likely around Marine or even SEAL level fitness and training and/or experience), but NOTHING human can withstand a big 50 direct hit.

And yet they do.

Not to mention in close combat they punch with the same force.

Game = canon? I think not.



 
#39 ·
You're comparing 40k table top to Halo a digital game, the reason the Halo digital is 1st degree canon is because the books came after it and were based upon it.

It is similar to the varying levels of canon that George Lucas classifies for the entirety of the star wars mythos.
 
#37 ·
LTKage- I see you've done the old 'pick out a small section and pretend that's the lot' trick, because I acually said that space marines can run, jump, hop whatever they can all that kind if thing, not space marines can do every thing fullstop.
And I haven't read the halo books, only played the games, and so I base my opinion off of that, but have you heard of plot armour? It's were the antagonist can survive impossible feats because there the main guy- it would suck if the master chief took a needle rifle or whatever to the face, like cat, wouldn't it? So he can't that doesnt mean he's acually invicible, however it's not one space marine that does all this stuff- it's all if them.
 
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