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View Poll Results: Who would win? Spartan or space marines? In general
Spartans 6 13.64%
Space marines 38 86.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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post #41 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:16 PM
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Now who is discounting whose canon?
Not discounting canon at all, merely stating that tabletop from Gamesworkshop own stance, holds a lower level of canon then do the Black Library books within their mythos.

I am not stating anything is not canon, I am stating to be aware and recognize varying levels of canon within each mythos.

When debating, and or discussing comparisons between different IP's and or mythos, one should be using examples that do not conflict with higher levels of canon.

Thus if one person presents a argument formulated upon the Warhammer 40k table top as the basis of their presentation, yet the example is in conflict with an example brought forth from the black library books then the warhammer 40k table top example is discounted.

The same goes for the halo mythos when using examples, any example is fine taken from canon material however when a higher level of canon within its mythos contrast a lower level example you go with the higher level display.

Last edited by Lux; 05-08-13 at 09:18 PM.
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post #42 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:17 PM
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You're comparing 40k table top to Halo a digital game, the reason the Halo digital is 1st degree canon is because the books came after it and were based upon it.

It is similar to the varying levels of canon that George Lucas classifies for the entirety of the star wars mythos.
If Halo digital is canon, why can Master Chief survive a drop from low orbit to the ground, but be killed by the explosive force of a rocket, which does not disfigure his body in anyway or even blacken his armor?
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post #43 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:29 PM
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Just looking at Lux's first post, he is even discounting Halo canon, Vaz. In the books, no spartan has withstood a direct hit from a hunters fuel rod cannon. James had a jackal shield, and his own shield, and it still took off an arm and left him in complete shock with his armor worse for wear. No spartan has survived atmospheric jumps without armor. Ever.

The flipping a 72 ton tank argument is a gameplay mechanic that is essential if you flip your fucking tank. Look at the elephant. There is no way a spartan could flip that big bastard, and yet if you somehow managed to flip it in game, Bungie thought ahead and added the mechanic to flip it back upright. In the books, they have never flipped a tank. The only vehicles they could flip would be warthogs and smaller.

They weren't even in the upper atmosphere of Reach when their pelican was hit. They were well below the upper atmosphere. They maxed out the gel layer for maximum cushion in their armor, they bumped their shields up to max in all areas, and they aimed for a forest to help break their fall. And yet still several died, and over half were left injured from it, horribly or otherwise. That is about 30 or so combat effective spartans that made that jump. When they landed, they were well below half combat effectiveness. Out in the open, the spartans were slaughtered up against the covenant. This you could tell when one of them commed Fred whom was elsewhere on planet. Not to say they didn't put up a fight though, because they did. They put up a hell of a fight.

Honestly Lux, I don't know where you got the dropping from atmosphere and surviving the fall without armor deal. Never happened. Ever. I remember everything from the books. Nowhere did that ever happen. Also a simple google search would further prove my point, but I digress. Its also pointless to suggest using google since you never seem to use it. You seem to make it up as you go.

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post #44 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:48 PM
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As I stated in the Halo Mythos, the game is the highest form of canon with the books being secondary. When an example from the books is contrasted by the game, then the games example is taken in place. However all examples from the books are valid as long as they are not made invalid by the game.

Nothing I have said is made up at all
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post #45 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:00 PM
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Not discounting canon at all, merely stating that tabletop from Gamesworkshop own stance, holds a lower level of canon then do the Black Library books within their mythos.

I am not stating anything is not canon, I am stating to be aware and recognize varying levels of canon within each mythos.

When debating, and or discussing comparisons between different IP's and or mythos, one should be using examples that do not conflict with higher levels of canon.

Thus if one person presents a argument formulated upon the Warhammer 40k table top as the basis of their presentation, yet the example is in conflict with an example brought forth from the black library books then the warhammer 40k table top example is discounted.

The same goes for the halo mythos when using examples, any example is fine taken from canon material however when a higher level of canon within its mythos contrast a lower level example you go with the higher level display.
But teleporting Mortarion? Dude. You can't even quote a fact correctly. You read it how you desire, replace Mortarion in that quote with anyone else, and it is a metaphor.

Can you provide me with GW's quote (or indeed quote your own sources, in particular for halo) that states that their game is anything less than canon?

The storyline is the canon. If Spartan PC dies, you reload until you continue in the story. Multiplayer certainly doesn't count. The mechanics of the game are there to tell a story in single player. Otherwise are you going to include Dawn of War? I can make a single battle company produce more than an entire chapters worth of marines. Thats in single player, as well though.



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post #46 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:05 PM
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But teleporting Mortarion? Dude. You can't even quote a fact correctly. You read it how you desire, replace Mortarion in that quote with anyone else, and it is a metaphor.

Can you provide me with GW's quote (or indeed quote your own sources, in particular for halo) that states that their game is anything less than canon?

The storyline is the canon. If Spartan PC dies, you reload until you continue in the story. Multiplayer certainly doesn't count. The mechanics of the game are there to tell a story in single player. Otherwise are you going to include Dawn of War? I can make a single battle company produce more than an entire chapters worth of marines. Thats in single player, as well though.
I think you may be experiencing difficulties with understanding how varying levels of canon work within a single continuity, and then comparing it with another IP altogether that also possesses varying levels of canon within its mythos.

The very fact that you are referencing Mortation teleporting which is entirely left to interpretation, of which you then have concluded he has not demonstrates your extremely fixated opinion as being correct above all others (save for those who agree with you).

What is canon concerning the Halo games is the campaign storyline and all feats done within it, the main character dying obviously is not canon as then the ending of the storyline would not be achieved.

All it takes is a bit of...perception to understand, perhaps you should take up reading some classic literature, it may help you to understand varying paradigms.
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post #47 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:11 PM
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All it takes is a bit of...perception to understand, perhaps you should take up reading some classic literature, it may help you to understand varying paradigms.
If reading classic literature will make people understand your bizarre and warped opinions, then I suggest people avoid it like a bus drivers house in Ohio.
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post #48 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Guys, please keep the flaming to the normal spots
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post #49 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:14 PM
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Lux, Spartans surviving atmospheric falls without armor is made up. No where, in books or games, has that ever happened. No where, in books or games, has a spartan ever survived a direct hit from a hunter fuel rod cannon. James is a special exemption because he had his shields, and a jackal energy shield held up in front of him, and like I said, he lost his arm, his armor was badly damaged, and he was in shock. Yes, both of your examples are made up.

Game mechanics that are essential cannot be taken as canon. A spartan cannot lift 72 ton. They cannot flip a 72 ton tank. From a canon stand point, Spartan II's can lift about three times their body weight which is double what it originally was because of their augmentations. No, they cannot flip a 72 ton tank. Even in their armor, with it enhancing their strength, they would never be able to flip a 72 ton tank. It would take several spartans to flip it. It took several to push a 160 ton monument on top of a hunter. They had trouble with it, even when they got a good running start and shoulder barged it. So how can 1 spartan, who isn't even the strongest of them (not even by a longshot) flip a 72 ton tank by himself with relative ease?

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post #50 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:23 PM
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Classic literature? You mean like Homer? Socrates? Luo Kuan Chung, Sun Tzu? Churchill? Bronte sisters? Stoker? Shelley? Twain? Virgil? JG Frazer? Marx, Wilde? Powell? Nietzche?

Lose the ad hominems, suggesting I am some literary luddite is horribly misplaced.

How you got the ability to teleport from (paraphrased) "he stepped out of the shadow like a big crow" I have no idea.

If games are canon then; http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=sSDAu7sHE_c

Break dancing tanks are a thing then?



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