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View Poll Results: Who would win? Spartan or space marines? In general
Spartans 6 13.64%
Space marines 38 86.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 07:08 PM
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From flipping 72 ton scorpion tanks, to being able to drop the atmosphere and land on the surface of the planet alive and in relatively good condition is what spartans can and have done (without wearing armor).

Those saying Astartes are stronger or faster is merely an opinion, going by the books and the game which in that mythos is canon shows the spartans to be physically superior.

Saying warhammer plasma guns are superior is once again pure speculation, one could easily state that convenant technology eclipses anything that the imperium of man has shown so why not their plasma weapons as well.

Spartan armor and shields have shown to be able to withstand direct hits from hunter plasma cannons, a space marine isnt going to get through that easily by any means.

If anything it would be the spartans that are dancing circles around the astartes, while pulling their appendages off their bodies.

Last edited by Lux; 05-08-13 at 07:10 PM.
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post #32 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LTKage View Post
I see you're relying on the "they can do everything" defense. Well played, Kiro the Avenger! I haven't see anything so compelling since Johnnie Cochran's Chewbacca Defense. Masterful.
Right..cause the high and mighty attitude is totally going to help get your point across. Just because you can be an ass doesn't mean you have to be one in order to convince other people.

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Yeah. You could say that Shields=Iron Halo.
Except it kinda isn't; a missile, tank shell, general heavy ordanance still goes right through a spartan shield whereas an iron halo projects an energy field that has a decent chance to absorb all of, or at least most of, the damage of those same weapons.


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Why would any non-40k military have something like a Dreadnaught?
Coincidently, halo 4 features a vehicle called the mantis. What is it? Why a bipedal machine with missiles on one arm and a chaingun on the other; their variation of a dreadnought if you will.

So why would anyone else have something like that? Because they can. (Personally I find myself asking the same question about mobile suits and mechs.)

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I still have a hard time understanding why Space Marines have Dreadnaughts.
Because the horrendously injured space marine controlling the thing cannot be fixed up with bionics but can otherwise still be of use in a combat situation.

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The Jetpack/Jump pack distinction isn't really useful because you can clearly use a jet pack as a jump pack. If anything, Space Marines lose out.
Why? From what we have seen spartan jump packs allow for extremely limited and short range mobility while the opposite is true of astartes ones.

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I'm also pretty sure that anyone who has ever played a video game can tell you that imperfect invisibility is still good and I'm sure that any soldier (Astartes included) would also agree. There's a reason why camouflage exists.
First, I personally hate cloaking tech in video games because it never seems to work for me. No matter how well I am hidden with cloaking, the enemy see's me and everyone starts shooting; fucking useless.

That aside, keep in mind that the Tau employ stealth technology and space marines have been able to combat them.


And finally, not gonna even bother responding to Lux's post. Seeing as it is a mish-mash of things previously said, and were answered, and double standard opinion (fluff for marines doesn't count but fluff for spartans does? Fuck off.)

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post #33 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 08:34 PM
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It is okay Darkreever, a lack of response to some thing is still a response. I appreciate your open mindedness, as well as your fairly well formulated response. Keep it up mate!

I just have this inkling, that some individuals within this thread associate their own identity with warhammer 40k to such a degree that any inclination of it as a mythos being inferior is a slight directly against their own value.

Darkeever, how much do you drink?

However I digress, spartans in the books as well as the games, have shown that their shields are quite formidable. It is almost comical how emotionaly strung the responses become of certain individuals when comparing concept versus concept, iron halo versus "halo shields". Yes let us claim each opposing argument is discrediting the opposing mythos's fluff, while exalting purely their own. When the majority of in text examples of the Iron Halo's formidably in regards to kinetic absorption varies so widely from text to text, that drawing any sort of reliable average would be comical.

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Last edited by Lux; 05-08-13 at 08:43 PM.
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post #34 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 08:52 PM
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Thebtrick is you are asking what the opinion of one to another, when not everyome knows. I haven't played Halo or read halo books so i don't know.

However i have read near enough EVERYTHING space marine based, am experienced in the quantified accounts of Space Marines equipment (i.e how effective Boltguns are in comparison to todays weapons). I struggle to think of anything that is anywhere near capable of beating them, outside of massively outweighed numbers, or supernatural strength- daemons, nids, etc.



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post #35 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:02 PM
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Thebtrick is you are asking what the opinion of one to another, when not everyome knows. I haven't played Halo or read halo books so i don't know.

However i have read near enough EVERYTHING space marine based, am experienced in the quantified accounts of Space Marines equipment (i.e how effective Boltguns are in comparison to todays weapons). I struggle to think of anything that is anywhere near capable of beating them, outside of massively outweighed numbers, or supernatural strength- daemons, nids, etc.

I tend to see Spartans as vastly superior custodes, in that they operate individually (after reach was glassed), hinging upon their superior intellect, physicality, and tactics.

I by no means discredit the speed, strength, and power of a astartes, it is just that the spartans showed feats that trumped anything I have seen of any space marine (barring special characters).

Some people like to discredit the game as canon, yet it is canon when it comes to the halo mythos. Flipping 72 ton scorpion tanks (in game), to survivng dropping from the atmosphere without armor (books), to being able to rip elites apart by the dozens (books).

I think what needs to be established here, really is the power, strength, and speed of an elite, to demonstrate just how powerful spartans are by comparison (fall of reach).

Speed wise spartans were able to outrun covenant hover bikes, and out maneuver incoming missiles, rockets, and other ordinance.

I just take it as I see it, and spartans trump astartes in individual power, however in a war a legion/chapter would win due to superior numbers and space craft.

A better comparison would have been the Human Federation of Old (the one which fought the forerunners) Versus the Imperium of man.
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post #36 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:36 PM
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Hate to be the bearer of prejudice, but your 'seeing it' is notoriously... how we say... 'out there' Lux.

The game is easy enough to discount as canon: gameplay sacrifices story.

A heavy stubber is the equivalent of a 50 cal hmg. That means a Guardsman can punch as hard as a .50. One round to the chest just disintegrates the standard human, yet it takes 2 hits to reliably, mathematically kill a guardsman by wounds, and 33% of those shots are saved, essentially takes 6 hits to reliably guarantee a kill of a guardsman with a 50 cal gun. A guardsman is, admittedly, an immensely fit, highly skilled individual (according to Cadia and Tanith as example, likely around Marine or even SEAL level fitness and training and/or experience), but NOTHING human can withstand a big 50 direct hit.

And yet they do.

Not to mention in close combat they punch with the same force.

Game = canon? I think not.



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post #37 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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LTKage- I see you've done the old 'pick out a small section and pretend that's the lot' trick, because I acually said that space marines can run, jump, hop whatever they can all that kind if thing, not space marines can do every thing fullstop.
And I haven't read the halo books, only played the games, and so I base my opinion off of that, but have you heard of plot armour? It's were the antagonist can survive impossible feats because there the main guy- it would suck if the master chief took a needle rifle or whatever to the face, like cat, wouldn't it? So he can't that doesnt mean he's acually invicible, however it's not one space marine that does all this stuff- it's all if them.

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post #38 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:56 PM
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The actual answer is based on which book is being written.

If it's a Halo book the Spartans will win.

If it's a 40K book, SM win.

If it's a Batman book, Batman wins.

Plot armor is the best protection of all
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post #39 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Hate to be the bearer of prejudice, but your 'seeing it' is notoriously... how we say... 'out there' Lux.

The game is easy enough to discount as canon: gameplay sacrifices story.

A heavy stubber is the equivalent of a 50 cal hmg. That means a Guardsman can punch as hard as a .50. One round to the chest just disintegrates the standard human, yet it takes 2 hits to reliably, mathematically kill a guardsman by wounds, and 33% of those shots are saved, essentially takes 6 hits to reliably guarantee a kill of a guardsman with a 50 cal gun. A guardsman is, admittedly, an immensely fit, highly skilled individual (according to Cadia and Tanith as example, likely around Marine or even SEAL level fitness and training and/or experience), but NOTHING human can withstand a big 50 direct hit.

And yet they do.

Not to mention in close combat they punch with the same force.

Game = canon? I think not.
You're comparing 40k table top to Halo a digital game, the reason the Halo digital is 1st degree canon is because the books came after it and were based upon it.

It is similar to the varying levels of canon that George Lucas classifies for the entirety of the star wars mythos.
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post #40 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 10:06 PM
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Now who is discounting whose canon?



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