Angron and the Emperor, predestined to be a fail meeting? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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Default Angron and the Emperor, predestined to be a fail meeting?

I just had the though that the main reason for the Emperor's success in swaying humanity to his cause was the psychic glamour of awe and greatness that he constantly projected, that sent men to their knees. Weeping or positively going blind from the radiance of his aura. Not even the primarchs where imune to it, getting taken in by his grand plan to reunite the disparate strands of humanity in a grand Imperium under his enlightened rule.

However damaged by the psyker inhibiting nails, Angron did not have the psychic aura of awe like his brother primarchs that made their space marine sons want to go through fire and water for them, leading to the world eaters desperately mutilating themselves with the nails in the hopes of getting just a glimmer of the awe and devotion that existed in the other legions between Primarch and their astartes progeny.

Then I hold, after reading Lord of the Red Sands, that the Emperor's psychic glamour simply did not work on Angron at all, and instead of seeing the saviour of humanity. Angron saw just yet another petty tyrant using everyone as tools for his own inscrutable goals, and why he choose to turn. He did not stand with Horus, but he stood against the Emperor.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 02:08 AM
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God damn it. I accidentally hit back and deleted my original post.

Anyway, I'll sum it up really quick.

I think there's ample evidence why Angron turned without another reason like a lack of the Emperor's glamor winning him over.

The Emperor forced Angron to break his oath to live and die with his slave brothers and sisters. The Emperor didn't spend any time with Angron or with Nuceria, his homeworld. Angron comments on this in Betrayer. The Emperor could have saved the Angron's slave army by unleashing the War Hounds, but for some reason he did not.

He didn't stay with Angron for weeks after their meeting, like he did with Russ, Vulkan, and Lorgar. Nuceria was only nominally part of the Imperium.

The Emperor turned Angron into an oathbreaker. Into a traitor from the onset. I think that's more than reason enough for Angron to turn against the Emperor.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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Im inclined to think that without drinking the Emperor's psychic kool-aid, Angron told him some nasties to his face, what he thought of him and his grand plan that he could care less about with his deathwish. It all meaning nothing to him. So I believe the Emperor felt it was pointless to argue with Angron and shuttled him off to his legion so he could still serve and be useful for a time. He had likely planned to have him purged if he became too obstinate, but until then he might as well get his worth from him.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 03:21 AM
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Here's the thing, though. Why did the Emperor teleport Angron straight up to his ship? There was no (overt) contact between Angron and the Emperor.

With every other son the Emperor discovered himself, he met them face to face on the planet, gauging their personality. With Angron it was a swift teleport out and then he was gone.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 03:23 AM
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Perhaps The Master Of Mankind novel will explain the Emperor's actions and motives of not saving Angron's rebel army?

Though If the Emperor had saved Angron's rebel army then he might have been as loyal as Leman Russ was in a sense.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hailene View Post
Here's the thing, though. Why did the Emperor teleport Angron straight up to his ship? There was no (overt) contact between Angron and the Emperor.

With every other son the Emperor discovered himself, he met them face to face on the planet, gauging their personality. With Angron it was a swift teleport out and then he was gone.

From lexicanum: Which I remember seeing in older white dwarf mags

His fate seemed sealed when seven well equipped armies surrounded Angron and his starving forces. Just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor of Mankind's Fleet arrived in orbit over the planet. The Emperor teleported directly to Angron's point of deployment with a few trusted Adeptus Custodes. The Emperor promised Angron a legion made in his image, limitless power, and life-times spent perfecting the Art of Conquest. But, to his surprise, Angron refused. He chose instead to die amongst his comrades while fighting his oppressors. Reluctantly, the Emperor returned to his flagship above. Yet just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor teleported Angron against his will back up to the fleet. He could only watch in anguish as those he regarded as his brothers and comrades were quickly annihilated[Needs Citation].
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Lucian View Post
From lexicanum: Which I remember seeing in older white dwarf mags

His fate seemed sealed when seven well equipped armies surrounded Angron and his starving forces. Just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor of Mankind's Fleet arrived in orbit over the planet. The Emperor teleported directly to Angron's point of deployment with a few trusted Adeptus Custodes. The Emperor promised Angron a legion made in his image, limitless power, and life-times spent perfecting the Art of Conquest. But, to his surprise, Angron refused. He chose instead to die amongst his comrades while fighting his oppressors. Reluctantly, the Emperor returned to his flagship above. Yet just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor teleported Angron against his will back up to the fleet. He could only watch in anguish as those he regarded as his brothers and comrades were quickly annihilated[Needs Citation].
It seems like to me that the Emperor was responsible for 80% percent of Angron's corruption if he did that.

And the Emperor could have easily destroyed that entire army if it was just made up of enslavers.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 05:09 AM
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I'd be careful with that. There's no actual source for that information.

It doesn't directly conflict with what is said in Betrayer, though.

It'd be best if you could find the material in one of your old WD magazines. It'd help the discussion and you could cite it for the Lex entry to boot.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Lucian View Post
From lexicanum: Which I remember seeing in older white dwarf mags

His fate seemed sealed when seven well equipped armies surrounded Angron and his starving forces. Just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor of Mankind's Fleet arrived in orbit over the planet. The Emperor teleported directly to Angron's point of deployment with a few trusted Adeptus Custodes. The Emperor promised Angron a legion made in his image, limitless power, and life-times spent perfecting the Art of Conquest. But, to his surprise, Angron refused. He chose instead to die amongst his comrades while fighting his oppressors. Reluctantly, the Emperor returned to his flagship above. Yet just as the battle was about to begin, the Emperor teleported Angron against his will back up to the fleet. He could only watch in anguish as those he regarded as his brothers and comrades were quickly annihilated[Needs Citation].
This seems to conflict with After Deshea. In that story, one of the big points they emphasized was how Angron was pissed he couldn't honor his brothers and sisters because he didn't see/know how they died. I believe the story also says Angron and the Emperor didn't really have a talk. Angron killed one of the Custodes and the Emperor teleported him away to the WE ship. Don't think they mentioned him being sent back down to the planet either.

Edit - Yea, found the quote pretty quickly. Angron says he didn't let the Emperor say much. And he was teleported to the Emperor's ship and then to the WE ship. He wasn't sent back to the planet.

Last edited by sadLor; 03-31-13 at 09:29 AM.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-31-13, 05:08 PM
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I think the circumstances of Angron's first meeting with the Emperor was tainted from the start. While he may have been somehow immune to the glamour cast by his father because of the Nails, it might have more to do with the fact he wracked with grief and anguish that his brothers in arms were dying without him.

All the other primarchs seem to have met him in more amicable circumstances, whereas Angron was only seconds from his perceived death, which he seems to have resigned himself to, being happy enough to fight and die alongside his companions. The Emperor took that away from him. Their relationship was never going to go well after that. The Emperor might have decided he would do more damage than good by hanging around with Angron for any length of time,and thus cut his stay short.
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