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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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So I've been reading HH books, forums and wiki articles tough now for the past 3 years, and I have to say that the unanswerable question of the 40k universe (whose gonna win) seems to be pretty obvious once you know enough about the nature of chaos, chaos has allowed all of humanity's success just as they did with the eldar before them. Chaos's intent is to keep the universe in constant war, the resulting death and emotion are their fuel, the chaos gods intentionally left the emperor just alive enough to allow humanity to reach the exact level of strength to remain in constant war for 10k years without really getting stronger or weaker because chaos keeps them that way.

The emperor is the galaxy's strongest psyker but even he was decieved when he thought he got the better of the chaos gods with doing the the primarch project without turning humanity to chaos as was his end of the deal (the deal was a win win scenario for chaos). The emperor's foresight is limited, he admits that his power of foresight was gone as the heresy began but the chaos gods saw everything, they even saw that hours would lose it was their plan. They crippled the emperor and killed his greatest success, they left Horus as the emperor struck not to flee (Horus regains his senses as they leave, without their influence in him he was back to good Horus) but so the emperor would have to kill his own son who he stole from the chaos gods, the irony is too chaos drenched for it to have been a failed attempt at killing the Emperor.

Reading thousand sons then first heretic back to back really cemented it in for me, every time anyone thinks they have the better of chaos they literally ALWAYS are wrong because they are used either way, they either fall to chaos or win and enable chaos to thrive on war for an even longer time. I dont think that the Emperor was a fool to this though, he must have realized after the scattering of the primarchs how wrong he was when thinking he could get the better of chaos, he knew if he can be tricked his sons can too therefore all of humanity as well which is why he bans psykers and religion even amongst his primarchs, he told Kurze that his way of ruling his system was best for humanity and this is because with that method the emperor could truly keep out chaos but even the emperor isn't powerful enough to hold that tight a leash on the whole galaxy (just look at the inquisition, they are humanities greatest defence against chaos and really are just people plugging cracks in a damn made of fangs that was designed to break).

This might seem like pointless ramblings but as an enormous fan of the idea that the Imperium of man represents the forces of order against the forces of chaos in the universe and the belief that the emperor really is the ultimate chaos anathema, equal to them in power, I have to say I'm seeing humanity now as simply another pawn of chaos, the ultimate force in the galaxy...

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Last edited by Vulkan Lives!!!; 03-23-13 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Spelling...
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:08 PM
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Assuming that humanity is doomed to fall to Chaos...

Who says humanity is the deciding factor? What of the Necrons? The Tyranids? What if they win the day and hold control of the galaxy?
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:20 PM
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If chaos are controlling everything then why not just leave humanity in the age of strife, all the war and misery you want, why bother with the great crusade and the heresy?

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:36 PM
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If chaos are controlling everything then why not just leave humanity in the age of strife, all the war and misery you want, why bother with the great crusade and the heresy?
Maybe because united Mankind can wage much more wars, shed much moer blood and send to death much more men?

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:40 PM
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Personally I think the whole "the chaos gods plan everything" is a cop out, if the chaos gods wanted humanity to be in a perpetual state of war and misery why not just leave them in the age of strife why bother letting the Emperor even exist to do a failed crusade?

The chaos gods are blagging bastards their greatest trick being they make everyone believe that they know all, which they don't, if the chaos gods where so smart why do the need puppets in the material realm? Tzeentch aka the master bullshitter does not even know what it is doing itself, the chaos gods left Horus cause they saw the can of whoop ass coming their way and bailed because they where pouring power into Horus and would have suffered great damage as the Emperor fucked him up, they where gambling on daddy not killing his favorite son!

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:42 PM
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Maybe because united Mankind can wage much more wars, shed much moer blood and send to death much more men?
If that is the case why not let the Emperor win, the 40k universe is filled full of war and misery hell the orks give you more war than you'd ever need

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 10:59 PM
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I suspect this is a side effect of the dramatic nature of the writing.

The chaos gods, no matter how vastly powerful are engaged with any number of realities and dimensions simultaneously. And each God is hardly a complete personality sentient in the same way as a person - they're infinitely more and so much less.

And the emperor isn't really their equal, not yet anyway. In the old canon there was a whole topic on his origin, death, and final apotheosis as a comparable god of good. Google 40k and sensei and star child.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 11:03 PM
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You are all heretics and I'm telling your mothers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-22-13, 11:08 PM
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Isn't Chaos a by product of our emotions?

Wouldn't that mean that if Chaos was to triumph, they would instantly disappear?

In that vein if the Emp is the greatest of all, wouldn't that mean he is a major power source for Chaos and ergo should be "unplugged" ?

And if Chaos wants him to stay plugged in, their best way of achieving that is to make out they want to unplug him so we divert all our efforts to achieving what they really want?

So there is no who is better but rather they are all in synch with each other.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-23-13, 12:43 AM
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Look at the Orks - gathered and united they could give the Imperium hell like it didn't see since the Heresy. But they will never be united, it's against their nature. Chaos is similar, I believe, in that matter - Immaterium is infinite and full of daemons, and the gods' power grows not only because of wars and suffering, but also because of the very presence of sentient, mortal life. Unleashed together, all at once, would bring HELL far, far, far greater than that, but it would be against the nature of Chaos. Also - destroying the most efficient supply of blood, skulls, souls, orgasms, flesh to infect and fates to twist would be like shooting oneself in the knee. With a dum-dum round.

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