13 Black Crusades - Is Abaddon really THAT much of a threat? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Default 13 Black Crusades - Is Abaddon really THAT much of a threat?

I've often wondered that if Abaddon is THAT much of the threat to the Imperium then why has he launched 13 Black Crusades that appear to not have had any lasting and devastating effect on the Imperium.

We know that time passes at a different pace within the Warp/Immaterium/Eye Of Terror (ie it might be that 10 millennia has passed since the HH in realspace but only maybe a century for the Traitor Legions).

I know this isn't the way it works but I always liked the idea that...

Time within the Warp/Immaterium/Eye Of Terror does not correspond to the linear timespan in realspace. This would mean that while there may have been 13 Black Crusades that to the Imperium came one after the other, they were not actually launched in the same order by Abaddon - meaning to the Imperium they appear somewhat random and unconnected but if reordered as per the design of Abaddon they make more strategic and tactical sense.

If indeed what I wrote just made sense!!!!
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 06:36 PM
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I can't remember which novel its in and im sure someone on here will find it and quote it but it is said that the first 12 crusaders were JUST crusades into the imperium that didnt have any real meaning or goal and that the 13th black crusade actually had a goal which was to break open the Cadia gate which in some part Abbadon did succeed. The Imperium knows that Abbadon is a threat but in the 41st millenium they also have orks, necrons and tyranids to deal with so they can't really focus on just him.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 06:37 PM
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Well, technically other than the Tyranids he's problem the greatest threat because of what's behind him:Chaos. The Crusades may be lead by the CM but they are sponsored by the Gods. They create the warp storms, easy travel, safe haven, and daemon hordes that make these things possible. If Abbaddon wins, unlike Horus, the galaxy will burn and at no point in his insanity will he think he was mistaken. Horus, according to xenos sources, would have eventually destroyed humanity after seeing the error of his ways.I don't think Abbaddon will reach the same conclusion.

The Necrons represented an equally horrifying doom as wanting to shut off the warp from the materium to allow their gods to feast on mortal life forces. Fortunately for the Imperium, that's no longer an issue. Now it's just the Tyranids and Abbaddon.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
On this note, I would argue that the Black Legion as it stands (as a loose coalition made up of countless warbands) is probably actually larger than several pre-Heresy Legions. We know that the Black Legion currently outnumbers the entire Word Bearers Legion by about 10:1 (based on Dark Creed). So even assuming the Word Bearers Legion now only numbers 10,000 (which is I suppose is a realistic, yet conservative estimate given thats only a fraction of their pre-Heresy strength - it could much easily be quite a lot more numerous though), that makes the Black Legion strength at roughly 100,000 (although it could be many more). Which of course is about the same size as the pre-Heresy Legions (bar a few).

Well considering we know next-to-nothing about most of Abaddon's 13 Black Crusades - IIRC the 1st, 12th and 13th are the only ones of his mentioned in the lore, and even then we only have extensive records on the 12th and 13th (the rest being Black Crusades led by other warlords or daemons and not one of Abaddon's 13) - therefore we cannot really judge any of them as failures. In the 1st Black Crusade he gained Drach'nyen, surely a success in and of itself? In the 12th he gained 2 Talismans of Vaul, and in the 13th he broke the Imperium's hold on the Cadian Gate. Doesn't sound much like a failure to me. Just because he hasn't burst into the Sol System and besieged Terra does not mean he has failed in his objectives.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 07:36 PM
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Isnt it stated in the new csm codex that the crusades were just a gathering of resources to fight the war that would come after breaking cadia? so theyre not failures just a process
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 07:59 PM
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I feel like Abbadon is only growing in strength while the imperium is loosing it slowly. The imperium is having to fight more and more aliens to defend its border, while Abbadon has got his eye solely focused on terra. Every time he launches a crusade he is damaging the dwindling resources of the imperium. That is my thought with the blackstone fortress. That is a weapon the imperium can never replace and as such the defence is far weaker.

In conclusion I believe that Abbadon is not a failure and perhaps is the gravest threat to humanity.

For all who want to know you get this from magic the gathering

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 08:18 PM
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We have to look at this from another perspective.

Chaos as a whole is hidden from the imperium. The inquisition is perfectly willing to slaughter billions to hide it and stop the taint. ex the months of shame.

Abaddon can launch as many crusades as he wants. They could all fail but for every crusade he launches more find out about chaos.

Chaos cares not for time. Eventually the galaxy will burn.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 08:18 PM
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That about sums up my opinion on the matter.

Homebrew stuff for your viewing pleasure:
The Stormhunters Fluff/Crunch - Updated 10/07/13
The Rust Legion Fluff - Updated 5/19/13
Firaeveus Carron Rules - Updated 12/9/10
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-13, 10:44 PM
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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to this situation.

That guy should really write a book about 40k fluff. And just how we can interpret and how we should read it.

In the world governed by CotE no one comes out particularly badly, all is just and fair.

Basically, CotE should just be the new head of fluff management at GW.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 12:25 AM
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Not every crusade had the objective of breaking the Imperium.

Not every crusade was even led by Abaddon.

Nonsense is our Salvation

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