13 Black Crusades - Is Abaddon really THAT much of a threat? - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by redmapa View Post
Isnt it stated in the new csm codex that the crusades were just a gathering of resources to fight the war that would come after breaking cadia? so theyre not failures just a process
That is correct. The new codex puts much more emphasis on the Thirteenth Black Crusade by suggesting the previous twelve were waged as mere precursors in preparation.

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But the thing I really like is the discussion between Talos and Abbadon in soul hunter, it basically comes down to the fact that both the empirium and the chaos SM are screwed big time, all humanity is not the just the emp lovers,
Take into account that conversation occurred before the Thirteenth Crusade.

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Originally Posted by Romanov77 View Post
Foothold on cadia...can't the Imperial Navy just bomb/lance them into oblivion?

Or cant cant imperials just land some siege engine of doom and macroshell them back into the warp?
This quote from the final newsletter of the Eye of Terror Campaign answers your question:
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The Thirteenth Black Crusade has broken the Imperiumís hold upon the Cadian Gate - perhaps forever. The raging tempest of the Eye of Terror has surged forth, engulfing those worlds lost to Chaos. The Imperium no longer bars the gate to the Eye, only a small channel remains through which Imperial Navy vessels may pass to bring aid to the desperate forces upon Cadia.
The Eye of Terror has surged forward, engulfing huge swathes of the Cadian Gate within the tides of the immaterium. The Imperial Navy cannot reach Cadia in sufficient numbers to challenge the forces of Chaos, even with the intended redeployment of "almost the entirety of Battle Fleet Gothic, along with a substantial proportion of Battle Fleet Solar."

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Originally Posted by piemelke View Post
I am not sure why the 13th black crusade is such a success for Chaos ?
The Eye of Terror campaign was a victory for the forces of Chaos; Cadia is largely in their control, as is orbit around the fortress world. Abaddon has breached the Cadian Gate and total war engulfs Segmentum Obscurus. The Imperial Navy may still be in control of the space lanes, but there seems no chance of resealing the gates at Cadia.

But the real success lies in the campaign's future potential: Abaddon's intention is to "tear open the gates of hell" and unleash the Daemonic Legions upon the Imperium. Realising that a direct assault on Terra is all but impossible with his mortal Legions, he intends to forge the "Crimson Path" in order to sustain the Daemonic hordes indefinitely and expand the boundaries of the Eye of Terror to engulf every world he conquers. Terra is still the ultimate objective of the Thirteenth Black Crusade.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 11:06 AM
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But the real success lies in the campaign's future potential: Abaddon's intention is to "tear open the gates of hell" and unleash the Daemonic Legions upon the Imperium. Realising that a direct assault on Terra is all but impossible with his mortal Legions, he intends to forge the "Crimson Path" in order to sustain the Daemonic hordes indefinitely and expand the boundaries of the Eye of Terror to engulf every world he conquers. Terra is still the ultimate objective of the Thirteenth Black Crusade.
Do you think alien intervention will ever occur now that Cadia has been breached?

Perhaps the Imperium wouldn't consider asking but perhaps the Eldar would take it upon themselves to sway the tides in the Imperium's favor?

Or maybe even the Necrons seeing as how the pylons are their creation.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 03:01 PM
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Wasnt Cadia still "unbroken"?

You know, that awesome Guard novel...
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
Do you think alien intervention will ever occur now that Cadia has been breached?

Perhaps the Imperium wouldn't consider asking but perhaps the Eldar would take it upon themselves to sway the tides in the Imperium's favor?

Or maybe even the Necrons seeing as how the pylons are their creation.
As far as i am aware, Abaddon, indeed the gods themselves were aware of the threat posed by the Eldar (albeit, limited in nature, they have been on the brink of extinction for 10,000 years) Abaddon if i remember correctly ordered the Night lords to nullify their threat.

regrading the Necrons, they are split, they are only just awakening and they basically arent in any position to hold back the tide, they might also not know or even care.

Abaddon's threat poses a problem primarily because it comes at the most inopportune time, the pylons are breaking/broken, the marines are few and far between, the mechanicum has regressed to a bunch of blithering idiots, Ultramar is threatened by an alien horde etc......

EDIT: anyone know what happened to the book that was stolen from the cave in "Mechanicum"?its meant to show up in 40k.

Last edited by Lost&Damned; 01-30-13 at 03:08 PM.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 03:10 PM
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I disagree with you on the Necrons not posing a threat due to them slowly waking up.

By now many billions of Necrons have already woken up, joined up with other dynasties and have achieved many victories against pretty much all the races (the same with the Eldar).

I mentioned them specifically because they clearly knew about Cadia's importance hence why they dotted its surrounding area with many warp-stunting pylons.

With them being destroyed, I'm quite certain they would (or should) be rushing to fix them.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
Do you think alien intervention will ever occur now that Cadia has been breached?

Perhaps the Imperium wouldn't consider asking but perhaps the Eldar would take it upon themselves to sway the tides in the Imperium's favor?

Or maybe even the Necrons seeing as how the pylons are their creation.
Both the Necrons and Eldar showed up during the same space battle. One of Abaddon's Blackstones (and its attendant fleet) was in orbit around Cadia, firing at the Imperials, vapourising whole cities.

An Imperial fleet hastily assembled was joined by the Eldar of craftworld Ulthue, led by Eldrad- who hoped to recapture the blackstone and free it of chaos corruption. Of course he failed and a Slaanash daemon ate his soul.

During the engagement necron ships showed up, attacking the blackstone directly, hoping to destroy this valuable eldar weapon. They failed to destroy it but did cause it to disengage.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-31-13, 12:49 AM
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My bad I meant in general not one particular battle/crusade.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-31-13, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade View Post
My bad I meant in general not one particular battle/crusade.
The eldar, or at least Ulthue were involved the whole way through the war. Whilst there was no formal alliance as such the eldar strike forces did attack chaos held planets and armies throughout the war. You could call it a mutually beneficial armstice.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-31-13, 03:27 PM
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Chaos has always been the greatest threat to the Imperium.

Is Abbadon really that much of a threat? Now more than ever I would say yes. But contrary to what he has done with his 13th Black Crusade, it is more of what legacy this leaves to Chaos. I said it before, if Abbadon fails this Black Crusade then it would be a huge set back to Chaos.

Now, the thousands of warriors of other legions and warbands that wanted nothing to do with Abbadon will directly or indirectly lend their support to his cause. The biggest problem with Abbadon's current force is the fact that he is perceived as a lunatic and a failure by many warbands. This and the fact that warbands are very limited to what they can be. I believe its fair to say that after every deployment, a warband's strength is rarely ever the same it was before. The armor, weaponry, and man power has always needed to be scavenged by all the Chaos Warbands.

Abbadon needed not only to show some kind of success with this crusade but also to make sure his losses during this crusade could be made up his success. I would say that this definitely did it.

However, I will say that I don't think Abbadon can remain in Cadia too long. He doesn't have control and is essentially surrounded. I'm not sure what to make about none of Abaddon's crusades being failures. I guess you can view anything chaos does by a means to an end. However, I don't think it has ever been the interest of the Chaos Gods for Abbadon to be completely successful. It is my opinion that they enjoy his tormented soul just the way it is. The fact that he is trying with all his might to be successful is something that probably amuses the Chaos Gods.

I think that Abbadon's victory was only to make sure Abaddon's status quo in the current realm remained. Had Abbadon failed this crusade we could project many things, but I really don't think Abaddon would be able to maintain himself as Warmaster of the traitors. Honsou and other warbands seem to be representations of warbands going off on their own to seek true success.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-06-13, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rems View Post
An Imperial fleet hastily assembled was joined by the Eldar of craftworld Ulthue, led by Eldrad- who hoped to recapture the blackstone and free it of chaos corruption. Of course he failed and a Slaanash daemon ate his soul.
Maybe Eldrad just stuck in the warp Draigo style.... I am not a fan of Eldar trickery but i gotta admit, Eldrad is awesome.
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