13 Black Crusades - Is Abaddon really THAT much of a threat? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 01:50 AM
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Not every crusade was even led by Abaddon.
No, but Abaddon has led thirteen black crusades in those ten thousand years, last I recall that is why they are numbered at all (the thirteenth would actually be Abaddon's thirteenth black crusade.)

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 02:03 AM
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No, but Abaddon has led thirteen black crusades in those ten thousand years, last I recall that is why they are numbered at all (the thirteenth would actually be Abaddon's thirteenth black crusade.)
I see. Understood.


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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 07:58 PM
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The situation for the empirium is not grimm dark, it is pitch black, the 13th black crusade being one of many threats,
I am not sure why the 13th black crusade is such a succes for Chaos ? they gained a foothold on Cadia but their fleet has been devestated ?
But the thing I really like is the discussion between Talos and Abbadon in soul hunter, it basically comes down to the fact that both the empirium and the chaos SM are screwed big time, all humanity is not the just the emp lovers,
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 09:09 PM
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A simple questione for my first post on this board:

Foothold on cadia...can't the Imperial Navy just bomb/lance them into oblivion?

Or cant cant imperials just land some siege engine of doom and macroshell them back into the warp?

Btw, Im Romanov. Been lurking for a while, I really like this board.
Never played tabletop, but I red lots of BL publications.
Imperial guard fan and imperial supporter all the way :-)

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-27-13, 11:25 PM
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A simple questione for my first post on this board:

Foothold on cadia...can't the Imperial Navy just bomb/lance them into oblivion?
This is actually what the end fluff of the 13th Black Crusade World Wide campaign said. By the end of it the Imperial Navy had regained space superiority and was in the process of supporting beleaguered imperial strongpoints and mopping up earth bound chaos forces.

Cadia itself is a different story however as there is still orbital fighting going on there. I would also assume that Chaos forces had taken at least some of the ground to orbital defences which would no doubt blanket Cadia.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-28-13, 12:30 AM
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they gained a foothold on Cadia but their fleet has been devestated ?
No, if memory serves most of the chaos fleets are largely intact. However when Abaddon lost the black fortresses (Talismans of Vaul) he did pull his forces back into the eye.

He had managed to gain a foothold on Cadia, one of the most heavily defended planets in the Imperium; an act that no other chaos warlord (other than himself) has actually accomplished.

Even without Cadia under the control of chaos, countless other worlds were lost, meaning the grasp held by Imperial forces on the Cadian gate is weakened. This in turn will allow chaos ships greater opportunity to escape the eye and cause havoc.

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Foothold on cadia...can't the Imperial Navy just bomb/lance them into oblivion?

Or cant cant imperials just land some siege engine of doom and macroshell them back into the warp?
No, because much of the fighting would have been taken to the various Kasr's. These are the city-states, major population centers, of Cadia and a fair majority of that is within urban sprawl or underground. The Kasr's are also fortresses, designed to withstand siege from the likes of orbital or ground forces, meaning that bombardment is useless and a direct siege will be resource consuming.

The thing about Cadia is that its greatest strength, that it is a fortress world, is also its greatest weakness. It is designed to be near impossible for someone to succeed in attacking, but if someone does than Imperial relief then has to go up against those same defenses, and any damage they inflict means that they have less to work with when they retake locations.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-29-13, 05:34 PM
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No, if memory serves most of the chaos fleets are largely intact. However when Abaddon lost the black fortresses (Talismans of Vaul) he did pull his forces back into the eye.

He had managed to gain a foothold on Cadia, one of the most heavily defended planets in the Imperium; an act that no other chaos warlord (other than himself) has actually accomplished.

Even without Cadia under the control of chaos, countless other worlds were lost, meaning the grasp held by Imperial forces on the Cadian gate is weakened. This in turn will allow chaos ships greater opportunity to escape the eye and cause havoc.


No, because much of the fighting would have been taken to the various Kasr's. These are the city-states, major population centers, of Cadia and a fair majority of that is within urban sprawl or underground. The Kasr's are also fortresses, designed to withstand siege from the likes of orbital or ground forces, meaning that bombardment is useless and a direct siege will be resource consuming.
Are there really fortifications capable of surviving the Navy bigger shots or the massive planet shattering nuclear charges the Imperium undoubtly possess?
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-29-13, 06:20 PM
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Are there really fortifications capable of surviving the Navy bigger shots or the massive planet shattering nuclear charges the Imperium undoubtly possess?
Yes, as a start I would point you to the planets of Krieg and Tallarn; the first which underwent atomic bombing (to the point where there is no way to sustain life out in the open) and the second which was virus bombed by the Iron Warriors and the only people who survived were within shelters.

Beyond that, there are a great many places that are void shielded in order to offer protection against the likes of orbital bombardment or siege. Void shields are mostly seen only on space faring vessels, titans, and the most important or heavily defended of cities (in fact the void shield of a city might be the equivalent of the void shield of a battleship or space station.)


This is actually why gaining some sort of foothold on Cadia is such a big blow. Because even with Abaddon and his forces falling back to the eye, it will take the Imperium years, to retake any fortified positions they previously lost. And that means tieing hell knows how many resources into such an effort. That foothold has effectively weakened the surrounding systems, not just the one world.

Damnation is paved on good intentions; subtle and sugar coated or blunt and honest
A hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down.
Popularity is what people strive for when they lack the strength to be themselves.


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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 09:03 AM
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I consider the Black Crusades a success. Their goal was to spread Chaos and discorde. They did this quite well. Even as Chaos forces retreated, they left destruction, distrust, desolation and even Daemons behind. They were driven back at a huge cost to the Imperium. Entire worlds, though reclaimed, were then destroyed by the Inquisition for fear of Chaos taint. Each Crusade further strains the Imperium, drawing resources away from other battle zones. Abaddon is like a serpent. Each bite injects more venom, which slowly weakens and can eventually kill. Think of it like Guerilla tactics on a huge scale.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-30-13, 09:08 AM
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We can't really say the thirteen Black Crusades had no lasting devastating effect on the Imperium. I quite certain that the Imperium would be in a much healthier state had these crusades not happened
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