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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-12, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Default Cult of the Dragon(Possible spoilers)

OK, so Graham McNeill says that he originally wrote the Dragon of Mars to be a C'tan; a full C'tan and not a shard, but that's not the point. The point is that I've now seen two techpriests in the Cult of the Dragon, one in Deliverance Lost and the other in The Primarchs, and I'm very confused as to their intentions. I can't tell if BL is trying to set up a new sub-plot or if they're trying to retcon the original idea of the Dragon very slowly. Or both.

Another interesting thing to note, is that in Deliverence Lost, the Dragon cultist speaks about the cult in a way that makes it seem like it is very much alive. Then, in The Primarchs, a different techpriest says the cult is now defunct but that he was part of it at some point. Obviously there can't be that much of a gap in time between the two novels for the cult to have been destroyed, and also obviously they wouldn't have brought it up again if it didn't mean something.

The problem I'm having is this: What exactly is the Cult of the Dragon? Is it based on the Dragon of Mars? Is it something entirely unrelated that just also happened to have the word dragon in it and be Mechanicus related?(derp)

If it is based on the C'tan Dragon of Mars, why are these guys so fond of Warp tech? The first guy who corrupted the gene-serum whatever stuff that Corax had may have been faking allegiance to Horus when in fact he was just trying to screw both parties for the benefit of the Dragon(who at this point I am assuming is still a C'tan). But that would imply it's communicating with them somehow and that it knows of the heresy and that it's trying to have influence in it somehow and and and and.....(*Minor brain hemorrhage*) Still though, if the Dragon is a C'tan, why would these guys be using Warp tech in the first place? Seems odd. I could accept the fact that the former cultist became enamored with the Warp sphere device thing in Primarchs and renounced the cult in favor of worshiping this thing, so at least that part makes some sense. Chaos corrupts all, etc.

Now for the other side: What if the Dragon is no longer a C'tan but just another daemon? The fact that the two cultists so far have been using Warp tech and didn't seem to care much about it either way seems to help this fact. The first cultist, in fact, seemed to aid Omegon in messing with the Raven Guard using "daemon's blood". Again, the second guy could have just "fallen in love" with the sphere thing, but we don't know where that's going yet.

Of course, what also backs this up is that Mechanicum makes things VERY vague as to whether the Dragon is a C'tan or a daemon, possibly on purpose or accidentally vague(Cause GW/BL vagueness is usually accidental, right?) This combined with the fact that there is zero mention of Mars or anything related to it in the new Necron Codex(Whereas the previous codex has several references to Mars) starts leading me to believe that the Dragon may no longer be a C'tan. Sadly.

What do you guys think?

tl;dr What do you think the Cult of the Dragon is?

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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-12, 08:16 PM
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Firstly, I don't think Mechanicum is vague in suggesting what the Dragon is, it is certainly a C'tan (or since the new Necron lore, a C'tan shard).

I would be surprised if the heresy council don't have a sub-plot lined up for the Cult of the Dragon, otherwise their involvement is completely pointless other than as a nod to the C'tan shard.



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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-12, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Firstly, I don't think Mechanicum is vague in suggesting what the Dragon is, it is certainly a C'tan (or since the new Necron lore, a C'tan shard).

I would be surprised if the heresy council don't have a sub-plot lined up for the Cult of the Dragon, otherwise their involvement is completely pointless other than as a nod to the C'tan shard.

So what are they doing with warp tech? This also has to be the slowest buildup for a sub-plot I've ever seen.

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-12, 10:13 PM
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So what are they doing with warp tech?
Warp tech is still tech, there's no necessary reason for a C'tan cult (based around technology) to actively refuse to use a very powerful form of technology, just because its semi-warp-based. The C'tan themselves can't interact with the warp but perhaps the Dragon is attempting to learn more about it using his human subjects. Or he just doesn't have complete control over his 'minions', he is still imprisoned after all.

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-16-12, 01:10 AM
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MEQinc hit the nail on the head. He doesnt have full control over his minions. I believe it talks about how the Dragon is only semi awake in Mechanicum adn only communicates through vague dreams and impressions. Not exact thoughts and ideas. So even assuming the dragon didnt want them to investigate warptech, there is still a lot of room for misinterpretation, also if nothing else, the Cult of the Dragon is spread all over the galaxy and could very well have different sects.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-12, 01:22 PM
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There's also the possibility that there are only three types of tech that are advanced enough to fulfill the void dragons plans (whatever they are): necron, eldar and warp-based. If necron tech is used, there is the possibility that the necrons will be awakened by it attempt to trap the shard in a tesseract labyrinth. Likewise, use of eldar tech might attract the eldar, who would attempt to destroy the shard; that, or the void dragon doesn't know how to use eldar tech. This just leaves one possibility; warp-tech.


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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-12, 03:02 AM
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This is what's getting me. A shard right? Go back and look at the description of what the Emperor faced. Your telling me that multiple shards of something like that are NOT imprisioned? Obviously not all the shards are accounted for. Look at what had to occur to imprison this thing that is a fraction. A fraction. Think about what that means and look at the description givin in the book of what kind of creature the Dragon was...weakened. Who else but the Emperor could have taken that thing on? Who's left now that would be able to handle them?

Them, that's right, you heard me. According to the new ridiculous fluff the Dragon represents a fraction of the some total. That means their are other Void Dragon shards out there. I'm sure they'll say come out with a way to justify why these other shards haven't destroyed the universe yet, right? Makes sense. OR, this concludes that the creature and story of the Void Dragon was never meant to be this shard crap. If the Necrons are aware of what's imprisoned there than the Dragon's shards would likely be aware also. This thing use to be a virtual God in the material realm according to the dreams in Mechanicum. So Mr. Ward, please explain how all the other shards are imprisoned as well. I'm sure that the Ward will come up with an explanation.

Maybe the Shards are at Shard-A-Palooza kickin back and listening to good music while a portion of them is imprisoned. Or maybe he'll say that the Necrons have all the Void Dragon shards and the one on Mars is the one that got away, awwww. Maybe there all dormant, though the only reason the Mars "shard" is dormant is due to outside intereference. Hey maybe every planet's got it's on Dragon Prison........
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-12, 03:46 PM
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Deadeye: What's with all the assumptions here?

First off just because one Void Dragon shard was free (at least until the Emperor got his hands on it) does not mean that they all are free. Plenty of its shards are still in the hands of the Necrons, scattered among the various dynasties and Tomb Worlds, both awakened and slumbering. Plus let's not forget that many Tomb Worlds have been lost to the march of time, their C'tan shards buried and lost. So really for every 'active' shard(i.e. ones in the hands of an active dynasty or a free one that awake in the galaxy) there's at least another (if not more) that is inactive. Finally don't forget that while the C'tan may be shattered into many there are not a lot of them out there in the galaxy period.

Plus the C'tan Shards are described as being unaware of their shattered nature so the Void Dragon shards wouldn't be aware that there are other shards much less that one was on Mars.

As to why the other shards haven't 'destroyed the universe' implies that the Dragon wishes to destroy the universe which even in the old fluff they didn't want. And it implies that the C'tan have minds that we can comprehend. These are beings operating on a level beyond us. They are as utterly alien to us as the Chaos Gods are.

But imagine you're talking about the old theories about what the Dragon was doing to those on Mars. Who's to say that there aren't other shards out there doing similar things. The galaxy is truly massive which can be easy to forget given our view of the 40k galaxy. We know there are and have been other civilizations in the galaxy that revolve around technology and science, some of which have been wiped out by the Imperium or other powers. And in all likelihood if the forces of the Imperium encountered a shard of the Dragon without any Necrons on such a world they'd likely think it was some other entity rather than anything connected to the Necrons. Plus we don't know how long such shards have been active. I imagine that a small few of all the shards of all the C'tan have been active for a great deal of time but others have not. Of course time itself has little impact on the C'tan. They have all the time in the world to plot. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that the shard on Mars is active and plotting stuff so far down the line that even those in the modern 40k setting can't even comprehend that something is going on.

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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-12, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye776 View Post
That means their are other Void Dragon shards out there. I'm sure they'll say come out with a way to justify why these other shards haven't destroyed the universe yet, right? Makes sense.
Why would they have destroyed the universe? If that was even possible, why would that be their intention?

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OR, this concludes that the creature and story of the Void Dragon was never meant to be this shard crap.
Well we know that for a fact. When Mcneill wrote Mechanicum the shard-lore didn't exist, so the Dragon of Mars was intended to be the whole Void Dragon, Mcneill said as much himself. But since the new Necron lore has been published, its a simple matter of applying it to the previous stories.

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If the Necrons are aware of what's imprisoned there than the Dragon's shards would likely be aware also.
Why? The shards only have "glimmering memories" of the being they once were, and I don't believe its stated that they are innately aware of one another, or their brother-shards' locations/presence.

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This thing use to be a virtual God in the material realm according to the dreams in Mechanicum.
And they still were god-like entities. The visions that the Dragon of Mars imparted to Cythera were possibly gleaned memories from when the Void Dragon was whole.

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So Mr. Ward, please explain how all the other shards are imprisoned as well. I'm sure that the Ward will come up with an explanation.
They are imprisoned within the tesseract labyrinths. Or at least most probably are, there may still be a handful of Void Dragon shards at large, perhaps through the Gates of Varl - there certainly used to be a C'tan presence there in previous editions of the lore.



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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-19-12, 08:34 PM
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Wait there, now you guys are talking about the dragon, it sounds awefully similar to the sentient thing The Lion encounters in his own Primarchs story. Do you think they're linked?
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