Most Space Marine special organs (including the Betcher's Gland) are implanted separately into the Neophyte. This is because Space Marines are converted humans. Thunder Warriors however appear to be grown from scratch and thus likely are 'born' with them.
No, you are clearly wrong. When Arik tells the Outcast Dead his true name, he states beforehand, "I no longer remember my mortal name, before I was remade into what I am now...". He was not BORN with these implants, he was born a mortal man.
The organs themselves no longer degenerate, which means they will not degenerate inside the Arik and Ghota. It does not mean that they will somehow stop the degeneration of other parts of their bodies. I would suggest that Arik is creating parts to replace those most damaged in themselves but this won't fix the underlying cause of the degeneration in other parts of their bodies.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I will repeat what I have said, using smaller words, with more detail as to what I was trying to say.
Arik and Ghota are dying. The GOAL of Arik's laboratory experiments seems to be to try and stop the degeneration of their bodies. He may even say that at one point, but I do not have the book here, so I can't quote it. We do not know exactly what he is trying to create, but whatever it is, it is an organ of some type. Given the description, I have suggested that it is a Haemastamen organ, which allows Astartes' blood's biochemical composition to carry oxygen and nutrients more efficiently. I only suggest this because of the reference several times to superoxygenated blood in the description of the organ.
Your suggestion implies that he needs to create several organs to replace what no longer functions, but if that were the case, he would not proclaim success with the creation of just a single organ.
Arik is a very smart person. He has spent decades if not centuries trying to create something that will allow both Ghota and Arik to live. The fact that he needs geneseed is interesting, but does not say a lot about what he needs it for, or whether the Thunder Warriors had geneseed.
Well see, "gene-seed" is a very loose term and can actually be applied to ALL the organs the Astartes are implanted with, not just the progenoids. It's important to be clear here, because evidence shows that Thunder Warriors have something approximating a Bletcher's Gland and thus can be said to have some 'gene-seed'. However a reductor is used exclusively to harvest the progenoids, which are another type of gene-seed and one that does not appear to be evident in the Thunder Warriors.
Now you're just talking down to me, with the 'well see..'.
Perhaps you did not read what I wrote or do not understand Space Marine geneseed, also known as Progenoid glands. Again, I will try to explain with more detail as to what I was trying to say. The GENESEED, contains the genetic information to culture and grow each of the Space Marine implants. This is why an apothecary does not have to remove each organ, just the GENESEED (also known as progenoid glands). The fact that Arik believes that he needs GENESEED to complete his experiments, does not mean, as you have said, that he is just going to implant the geneseed directly into his body, because as you have noted, it would probably kill him (but then if he is a Primarch, it may not).
As I have said, Arik is very smart, which makes you wonder what he would need GENESEED for? He is creating an organ, which he needs for both he and Ghota to LIVE (his words). If he is as smart as a Primarch, he would be trying to create something to reverse their degeneration, not just stop it. Again, we are talking Primarch level intelligence (I believe). I have suggested that he needs it to create a Haemastamen organ, which he would implant directly into himself and Ghota without killing them.
Actually no, you haven't. You talk about what organs he's growing and what they do in Space Marines. You haven't addressed the fact that Space Marines are only created from prepubescent boys because implanting gene-seed organs latter than that results in death.
Yes, I did. I said that he was trying to create an organ that he seems to think will at least halt his degeneration. You are the one that keeps talking about trying to implant the entire geneseed into his body. I never mentioned this.
And he is not trying to create a Space Marine, he is trying to halt his own degeneration. Implanting a single organ, made by Primarch level intelligence, is not the same as trying to create a new space marine.
Is this debate then about whether the Thunder Warriors possess certain parts of the gene-seed, or about whether they possess progenoid glands?
This is not a debate, this is a discussion. If you read the title and first post of this thread, it is whether Arik Taranis was a 'proto-primarch'. This discussion has been that if the Thunder Warriors had at least some of the organs that the space marines had, then where did they come from? Was Arik the progenitor of the Thunder Warriors geneseed that would be used to create the organs implanted into later Thunder Warriors? Or were the organs implanted into Arik and the geneseed grew within him until it was ready to be implanted into other Thunder Warriors?
I do not know but talking about this has certainly clarified many things in my mind, which is why we are having this discussion, not debate. I admit, none of the evidence is clear cut, but the richness of the OUTCAST DEAD, is that it contribute new information to the WH40K universe that is now part of canon and we could discuss endlessly what it all means.