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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Default Primarch personalities: particularly Guilliman

Reading "know no fear" Guilliman is seen as very very normal. At least as far as I have read. He could have fit right in a Guant novel as an Imperial Guard commander.

I kind of dont know how to take this. Being a big smurf fan, I liked the idea that he was a kind of pain in the ass cocky tactician who was all about details. This didn't show arrogance, or coldness at all. He was a peoples person basically.

Whats is your guys take on him, along with the other primarch personalities, currently fleshed out. Ex: Lorgar.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 07:09 AM
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I was also shocked by the way at least a couple of times subordinates tried to question his judgement...a primarch! When he was teleporting with the battle group and at least one other occasion. I doubt even someone like Dorn would take that in his stride.

Oddly he came accross as a bit likeable.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 07:56 AM
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i seems like not all Primarchs always inspired unquestioning loyalty from their subordinates. Corax had it even worse in Deliverance Lost. The Lion sometimes seems to have similar problems. It may or may not depend on the author in question but neither Horus, Alpharius or Russ seem to have had similar problems in Dan's other heresy novels.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 07:42 PM
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I think it maybe more to do with the author who is writing it than anything but I have to re-read Dan Abnett's previous heresy novels to make comparison in describing the primarchs.

I find Guilliman to be likable. In matter of fact Russ was likable too in Prospero Burns .
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 08:50 PM
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I thought Gulli was reasonable portrayed in "Know No Fear".

In terms of ability, Gulli was head and shoulders above a normal human. He was able to formulate plans--he jury rigged a communication system between his ships on the fly. He also managed to micromanage the mobilization of his Legion, Imperial Army, and Mechanicus units on Calth.

Personality wise he seemed level headed for the first half of the novel, with narration reinforcing it as well.

While pondering whether the Word Bearer's fleet initial attacks were a misunderstanding or a panic response, the Chapter Master of his first Chapter thinks:

"His [Gulliman's] calm is almost terrifying. Gage is transhuman: both bred and trained to know no fear. The acceleration of his own hearts and adrenal levels are simply a response to the situation, a readiness to act faster and more efficiently. But Guilliman is at another level entirely. He is watching a critical disaster unfold on one of his most beloved planets: the miserable loss of a vital shipyard facility, the collateral damage, the destruction of ships, a portion of the fleet crippled, surface locations caught in the debris rain…"

Watching a good portion of his Legion succumb to disaster and Gulli keeps his cool. He only really loses it when he realizes that not only is Logar's Legion attacking his forces deliberately, but it was premeditated to a great degree.

As for his men doubting him, it makes sense.

The book mentions that people, namely the other Legions, consider the UMs a bunch of windup soldiers. Unthinking and inflexible. I think the book is trying to refute that and demonstrate (through various character's thoughts and actions, and through the interesting theoretical/practical conversations they have) that the UMs are bred to be thinkers.

His men don't blindly follow him (like, say, the Word Bearer did with Logar), but ask and question. They want to be kept in the loop. They want to know why and how they're fighting.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hailene View Post

The book mentions that people, namely the other Legions, consider the UMs a bunch of windup soldiers. Unthinking and inflexible. I think the book is trying to refute that and demonstrate (through various character's thoughts and actions, and through the interesting theoretical/practical conversations they have) that the UMs are bred to be thinkers.

His men don't blindly follow him (like, say, the Word Bearer did with Logar), but ask and question. They want to be kept in the loop. They want to know why and how they're fighting.
This is so interesting because in 40K they, the UM, appear very rigid and only work within the confines of the codex. That is the problems that Ventris had in his series....he was a free thinker and thought out side the box or in this case the codex..lol

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 09:43 PM
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I was also shocked by the way at least a couple of times subordinates tried to question his judgement...a primarch! When he was teleporting with the battle group and at least one other occasion. I doubt even someone like Dorn would take that in his stride.

Oddly he came accross as a bit likeable.
Primarchs aren't all knowing, they do have flaws. Horus ego is his biggest flaw, when that governor turned to chaos eberous made is personal. Otherwise the sons of horus would have been dispatched and horus would have remained on the flagship.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-07-12, 10:24 PM
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This is so interesting because in 40K they, the UM, appear very rigid and only work within the confines of the codex. That is the problems that Ventris had in his series....he was a free thinker and thought out side the box or in this case the codex..lol

Doc
I never liked the idea of the codex being some rigid rule book. "If the enemy is X strong and placed in Y way in Z terrain, then with a force of A do plan B until C happens." I think a lot of people--some of the authors included--believe it's some sort of play book a third-rate coach would have in a binder.

It's the combined tactical knowledge of hundreds, maybe thousands of civilizations, coupled with the skills and knowledge of possibly the greatest strategist in the galaxy, who had centuries of battle experience spanning the entire galaxy.

I would like to think the UMs are (supposed to be) more disciplined than rigid. The discipline and nerve to do what the situation demands. That might be sitting in a trench for 6 months, to a charge across an open field, or perform to a tactical withdrawal.

Other Legions are, I think, at least during the GC, a bit more rigid. White Scars will relying on lighting assaults and flank attacks with highly mobile units. The Alpha Legion will rely on subterfuge, and so on.

Maybe rigid isn't the right word. Perhaps...less versatile? Not saying the White Scars couldn't hold a line or Alpha Legion take part of a frontal assault, but their focus on particular sorts of combats limit their other abilities and thus their tactical options.
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