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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-11, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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I'm reading Hammer & Anvil at the moment and came across some info that might help clear things up:

It's stated in the book that Necron ships are running around the galaxy "traveling at near-light speeds." Ok, so they don't have any FTL. Lovely. Also, Dolmen gates are a rare thing and not easily repaired(though they can be, given time. In the book it's been many years since the Sanctuary 101 incident and the thing still isn't fully fixed.) Nothing at all on if more can be created, but since the Necrons go to such lengths to find and fix lost ones I'd assume not. They appear to be the Necron equivalent of STCs in terms of "valuable relics of a lost age" type stuff.

So Necrons essentially move slower than the Tyranids in normal space and have a handful of Dolmen gates that destroy themselves over time just by their function. This essentially means that any Necron fleet that wants to attack somewhere is going to have to do so in such massive numbers so as not to be destroyed when they finally reach something like a heavily-defended world.

Imotekh now knows how big a Black Templar crusade fleet is and would take steps to not lose a second time, making them a lot like Tyranid splinter fleets(though IMO it seems really unlikely that he should have even lost the first time to some Imperium ships.) Also, I still can't seem to figure out if Necrons can actually make more stuff. They can re-purpose already constructed bodies, machines, stuff like that, but if they could make more armies from scratch I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Oh, and on the subject of what the Necrontyr used to look like, the cryptek Ossuar in the book states that human biology is a recursive evolution of their old organic forms and he was curious to know exactly how that happened. Sounds like they looked almost exactly like humans.

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-11, 07:06 PM
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What do you think of the book overall? Worth reading, or skip it?
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-07-11, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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It's interesting so far. The book doesn't feel too much like an advertisement for new Necrons. Funny enough the few Necron characters that are introduced feel more alive and fleshed-out than the Sisters do. Probably because the Sororitas are portrayed as essentially female Ultramarines(with the "but they're still human" thing thrown in.) There's a lot of Adeptus Mechanicus stuff as well. It's a good all around read, better than many of the Battles of the Space Marines books.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 04:38 AM
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I`ll have to read this when I get the chance.

I can say that necrons are able to repair and rebuild their own tech. They are also not adverse to developing new tech.

The Dolmen Gates are neither of these, accounting for the difficulty.


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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
I`ll have to read this when I get the chance.

I can say that necrons are able to repair and rebuild their own tech. They are also not adverse to developing new tech.

The Dolmen Gates are neither of these, accounting for the difficulty.
I don't think you can just state this as fact. Those are suppositions, there's no evidence (yet) to back those assertion.

I would agree that they can repair some (all?) of their technology- we see this in the repair of 'wounded' necrons. We can also then assume that given time and resouces they can repair or replicate most, if not all, examples of their technology.

We have no evidence that the Necrons are predisposed to creating new technology though, with no examples of such technology.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 07:57 AM
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Actual FTL is a poor way to try to forge a Galactic empire, just as bad in it's own ways as STL.
It's the time dilation that causes the problems. To the crew of the ships time is travelling slower than for those on the worlds they are trying to move between. Thus, when the crew get to their destination having travelled for a few weeks/months, lots more time has passed for those they've left behind and their travelling to see/invade; communication becomes too disjointed for it to mean anything. The Forever War is a good description of how it just doesn't work (the FTL as a means of galactic travel, not the book).
The Galaxy is just too big unless a race that lioves in it can find some way of bypassing physics. The Necrons jacking the Webway brings them into line with how the other Galactic residents have spread; FTL seemed, to my mind anyway, to 'hard science' to actually fit with the 40k 'verse. I read the new 'dex and actually felt sympathy for the Necrons and their Faustian bargain. I'm going to have to pick this book up so I can see the retro-renaissance (if I can coin such a clumsy word!) of the 'crons, and maybe the Sisters as well.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 10:02 AM
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I don't think you can just state this as fact. Those are suppositions, there's no evidence (yet) to back those assertion.
Really? The difficulty in this stems mainly from the fact that they have pretty much reached the pinnacle of scientific achievement bar a few shortcomings.

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I would agree that they can repair some (all?) of their technology- we see this in the repair of 'wounded' necrons. We can also then assume that given time and resouces they can repair or replicate most, if not all, examples of their technology.
There is no reason to believe that the necrons could not rebuild any lost tech given the resources. Crypteks are not described as having the same superstitious nature as the Imperium`s Techpriest. In fact the only real hindrance is that Crypteks are seldom trusted by those with the power to grant these resources.

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We have no evidence that the Necrons are predisposed to creating new technology though, with no examples of such technology.
Not entirely true. In Fall of Damnos, Ankh creates a booby trapped resurrection orb to eliminate a rival lord. While this may not be a unique tactic to him, the fact that the technology was unheard of suggests that it was in the very least uncommon.

Granted that is a rather weak example, but just because the need has not yet arisen does not mean the ability is not there.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 10:14 AM
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I don't disagree that the possibility is not there Serpion5, just that i don't think you can present those assumptions (logical as they may be) as hard fact yet. Until we have evidence it's merely conjecture. It was the tone (or at least the perceived tone) of what you said rather than the contents which i felt needed clarification.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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The way the Dolmen Gates are described by a Sister is that they seem "wrong" very much the same way things of the Warp seem "wrong" to humans. Things at angles that make no sense and impossible geometry, etc. I'd say the Gates are godtech created by the C'tan themselves back in the day. Does this mean the Crons can't make more? Unknown. I think, given time, Necrons can infact make anything they want, but perhaps only on certain Tomb(Crown?) Worlds.

The Canoptek Spyders' gloom prism is a good example. Although the codex screams repeatedly that the Necrons don't understand the Warp, they are somehow able to block "warp-spawned power." More contradictions, I guess.

EA: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Game companies rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished. Bioware was not the first. By utilizing our funding, game companies develop along the paths we desire. They exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it.

Last edited by SoulGazer; 12-08-11 at 02:26 PM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-08-11, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Fossil Penguin View Post
Actual FTL is a poor way to try to forge a Galactic empire, just as bad in it's own ways as STL.
It's the time dilation that causes the problems. To the crew of the ships time is travelling slower than for those on the worlds they are trying to move between. Thus, when the crew get to their destination having travelled for a few weeks/months, lots more time has passed for those they've left behind and their travelling to see/invade; communication becomes too disjointed for it to mean anything. The Forever War is a good description of how it just doesn't work (the FTL as a means of galactic travel, not the book).
The Galaxy is just too big unless a race that lioves in it can find some way of bypassing physics. The Necrons jacking the Webway brings them into line with how the other Galactic residents have spread; FTL seemed, to my mind anyway, to 'hard science' to actually fit with the 40k 'verse. I read the new 'dex and actually felt sympathy for the Necrons and their Faustian bargain. I'm going to have to pick this book up so I can see the retro-renaissance (if I can coin such a clumsy word!) of the 'crons, and maybe the Sisters as well.

GFP
The time dilation problem is usually solved by, instead of moving the ship faster than light, by warping space so that, in it's own frame of reference, the ship moves at sublight speeds but, compared to light outside the warped area of space, moves faster. Although, given that the Necrons have spent the last 60 million years in suspended animation, would spending a quick jump between stars asleep really be a problem for them?
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