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post #47 of (permalink) Old 03-24-09, 10:31 PM
Revelations
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Originally Posted by Red Orc View Post
@ Revelations:
How is having a conversation with 14 people in one thread working out for you buddy? :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Orc View Post
Not sure what you mean by 'pure anarchy' in your last answer. What we have is 'pure anarchy' - competing gangs of violent and disruptive lunatics who happen to control large enough armed forces to call themselves 'states'. All government, as you say uses force. The state, said Engels, is an "armed gang organised for the defence of private property". Why do you think I'm advocating that a single person should do that? You're the one who believes in benevolent dictatorship. I don't know who these 'few hundred squabbling politicians' are either; but I am really surprised to hear an American calling for the establishment of a monarchial system in place of your so-called democracy. I thought your country had a revolution against that in 1776. Me, I believe in democracy, rule by the vast majority of the population. Not the false democracy of voting in a new team to mismanage the economy ever 4 or 5 years, but a particiaptive democracy.
The abolishment of all government would lead to pure anarchy. I thought that was what you were suggesting in your statement. I can see by your clarification you are not. Misunderstanding my good man.

The difference between the two is Anarchy has no one controlling any power beyond personal control whereas Benevolent Dictatorships give all the power to one person who happens to have the power to enforce his will.

The few hundred squabbling politicians I am refering to are the people who currently run my country; Senate, Congress and others. To quote Braveheart; "A mess of scheming bastards! They couldn't agree on the color of shit!"

America is also not a democracy, regardless of what people will say. It's more along the lines of a Constitutionally Mandated Federal Republic. America has never been, nor is, nor ever will be a democracy. That's majority rule, and we have far to many minority rights and capitalist interests groups to ever allow that to happen. Plus, mob mentality in government? No thanks.
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Originally Posted by Red Orc View Post
The system I'm advocating, the last time it was a serious possibility, lasted approximately 2 years. It died under the guns of 15 other countries that invaded Russia, including the USA and Britain, and the armies of those who wanted to restore the bloody warmongering Csar; the Paris Commune of 1871 lasted a couple of months before the French Government drowned it in blood; the German Revolution (that ended the massacre of WWI in 48 hours, though the generals and politicians couldn't do it in 4 years) was murdered by the 'Socialists' and the Freikorps before it was hardly begun.
So we agree that history has both proved and disproved our respective positions then? All governments rise and fall by the whims of man; something I said at the begining of this thread.
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Originally Posted by Red Orc View Post
So; it may be true that the revolution drowns in blood, but the likelihood is it's the capitalists pulling the trigger. That is no more the fault of communists and anarchists than (all as you've already invoked Godwin's Law) the policies of the Nazis were the fault of the Jews, or the destruction of the World Trade Centre was the fault of American workers.
I didn't invoke it! At least not in this thread. Besides, revolution happens for all sorts of reasons; but I'll always put the blame on those ones who start it because they disagree with the government their in. The likelihood of the starters depends on entirely who they are, what they believe and what government they disagree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Orc View Post
Still, why should we give in to warmongers, murderers and terrorists? I don't see any reason to accept the status quo when that is so manifestly an anti-human system, even if the threat of murder is obviously very real. But, if in the end we are all murdered by the supporters of capitalism, at least we will have allowed future generations to say that we didn't all surrender to the darkness without a fight.
I feel like you went on a tangent like I did. I'm not even sure I could take any of this as a direct response to anything I said. Now that I'm rather confused, I'm going to back away slowly while nodding my head and smile...

Pondering...
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