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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-03-16, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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Default Input Wanted - Night Lords Legion Army

Howdo, like Nord's thread earlier I am seeking input on the Night Lords army that I want to make my project for the year.

So far I have; (All unassembled)

1 x Praetor (BaC)
1 x Centurion (BaC)

30 x Tactical Marines (BaC) (Rite of War means these will have to become three 10-man Terror Squads)
5 x Cataphractii Terminators (BaC)

1 x Contemptor Dreadnought (BaC)

I will be buying the following;

1 x Fire Raptor or 1 x Sicaran Battle Tank
1 x Sevatar
5 x Cataphractii Terminators
10 x Night Lords Raptors
3 x Scimitar Jetbikes (More if necessary for a good unit)


1850pts

HQ

Sevatar = 175pts

Elites

Cataphractii Terminator Squad (10 men) + Lightning Claws (Single) (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive (Sergeant) + Teleporter Transponder = 385pts

Contemptor Dreadnought + Multi-Melta = 175pts

Troops

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement = 310pts

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement = 310pts

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement = 310pts

Fast Attack

Heavy Support

Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon Sponsons = 175pts



2500pts


HQ

Sevatar = 175pts

Chaplain + Jump-pack + Plasma Pistol + Trophies of Judgement= 125pts

Elites

Cataphractii Terminator Squad (10 men) + Lightning Claws (Single) (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive (Sergeant) + Teleporter Transponder + Trophies of Judgement = 390pts

Contemptor Dreadnought + Multi-Melta = 175pts

Troops

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement + Hand-Flamer = 320pts

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement + Hand-Flamer = 320pts

Terror Squad (10 men) + Volkite Chargers (9) + Nostraman Chainglaive + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour) + Drop Pod + Trophies of Judgement + Hand-Flamer = 320pts

Fast Attack

Night Raptors (10 men) + Nostraman Chainglaives (3) + Power Weapons (2) + Melta Bombs + Artificer Armour + Volkite Serpenta + Trophies of Judgement = 325pts

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (3 men) + Plasma Cannon + Melta Bombs (All) = 165pts

Heavy Support

Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon Sponsons + Auxiliary Drive = 185pts


LotN



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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-04-16, 11:11 AM
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I like the Fire Raptor, but I'm probably one of the few people who do. Partly because it's a nightmare to put together. Partly because it is a little odd. It works well when you've got a ground unit or two you want to fire at as well as some light flyers knocking around in the air space as then you can really make the most of the avenger bolt cannon and the autocannons. However, if it's that's not the case you'll probably find that you can't actually bring all your weapons to bear in any one turn and that turns some folks off of it. As I say though, I quite like it.

However, with the things you've got planned to buy you might have a problem since the Night Lords RoW only lets you have 1 Heavy Support unit, so you'd have to choose between the Fire Raptor and the Deredeo/Leviathan. If you still wanted a flyer, perhaps you would be better served with a Storm Eagle? Then you can still take your heavy support dreadnoughts, you've still got some extra air-support (and 2 twin-linked lascannons + 1 twin-linked multi-melta will put the fear in most other flyers because of how easily they can hurt it) and even some transport capacity?

As for extra units, I think you've got a lot of the bases covered. Personally I'd be tempted to get your anti-air in places other than your heavy support slot. A single Deredeo seems to be a bit of a waste of that precious slot (but equally I say that because the only times I've faced them they've done not a lot and crumpled like paper). A Contemptor-Mortis or a Lightning will give you anti-flyer defence if you need it and leaves your heavy slot free for whatever you like. The leviathan seige dreadnought is definitely a shout since it looks so cool and will curb stomp a lot of things, including several primarchs. Alternatively something like a Sicaran Venetor to shut down and LoW you run across might also be a good plan.

Looking forward to seeing your Night Lords around!

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-04-16, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
I like the Fire Raptor, but I'm probably one of the few people who do. Partly because it's a nightmare to put together. Partly because it is a little odd. It works well when you've got a ground unit or two you want to fire at as well as some light flyers knocking around in the air space as then you can really make the most of the avenger bolt cannon and the autocannons. However, if it's that's not the case you'll probably find that you can't actually bring all your weapons to bear in any one turn and that turns some folks off of it. As I say though, I quite like it.
Interesting, that part about putting it together is unfortunate but what can you do.

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However, with the things you've got planned to buy you might have a problem since the Night Lords RoW only lets you have 1 Heavy Support unit, so you'd have to choose between the Fire Raptor and the Deredeo/Leviathan. If you still wanted a flyer, perhaps you would be better served with a Storm Eagle? Then you can still take your heavy support dreadnoughts, you've still got some extra air-support (and 2 twin-linked lascannons + 1 twin-linked multi-melta will put the fear in most other flyers because of how easily they can hurt it) and even some transport capacity?
Hm, the Storm Eagle seems ok. But it sacrifices a lot of hitting power for transit capability, which considering that my Terminators can Deep Strike and my Raptors can jump-jet means only the Terror Squads would benefit. What about the Xiphon Interceptor? If I made that my flyer as a Fast Attack choice, and went with either a Sicaran or a Leviathan for my HS choice.

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As for extra units, I think you've got a lot of the bases covered. Personally I'd be tempted to get your anti-air in places other than your heavy support slot. A single Deredeo seems to be a bit of a waste of that precious slot (but equally I say that because the only times I've faced them they've done not a lot and crumpled like paper). A Contemptor-Mortis or a Lightning will give you anti-flyer defence if you need it and leaves your heavy slot free for whatever you like. The leviathan seige dreadnought is definitely a shout since it looks so cool and will curb stomp a lot of things, including several primarchs. Alternatively something like a Sicaran Venetor to shut down and LoW you run across might also be a good plan.
Hm, I thought that the Deredeo and Leviathan were Elites like the Contemptor rather than HS. I do plan on having two HS choices, or three, to rotate them so that I can experiment with different strategies.

Can the NL have a LoW choice in addition to an HS choice?


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-04-16, 08:21 PM
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The Xiphon is a good Fast Attack choice but from what I've read (I've never seen one in the flesh) it seems more of an anti-flier aircraft whereas a Lightning (also Fast Attack) is a more ubiquitous "ruin someone's day" aircraft.

Sadly yes the Deredeo and the Leviathan are Heavy Supports, although you can take Leviathans in Talons of 3 so they are possibly a better choice?

Any yes Night Lords can have a LoW choice with their RoW.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-04-16, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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The Xiphon is a good Fast Attack choice but from what I've read (I've never seen one in the flesh) it seems more of an anti-flier aircraft whereas a Lightning (also Fast Attack) is a more ubiquitous "ruin someone's day" aircraft.
Hm, from what i've read with Ground Tracking the Xiphon can pretty much wreck all forms of tanks, bar LoWs, while the Lightning is more of an anti-light/medium vehicle killer.

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Sadly yes the Deredeo and the Leviathan are Heavy Supports, although you can take Leviathans in Talons of 3 so they are possibly a better choice?
A Leviathan Talon would cost somewhere around 900-1000pts, so that is out of the question. One is the limit for me.

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Any yes Night Lords can have a LoW choice with their RoW.
Very nice, if I want to upgrade to 3000pts I can go with this.

I've added an army list to show what my 2.5k force would look like. Any advice on that would be most welcome. The Terminator unit is what I am most curious about as I am unsure whether a 10-man squad is a good idea considering the points cost, or if a 7-man unit is enough.

Also 5-man Terror Squads, part of me thinks that three five-man infiltration squads with Volkite weaponry is a dangerous little group, especially when the enemy has to be looking at a 15-man Tactical supported by a Xiphon, Terminators, Raptors and Jetikes. But another part of me says they will crumble under a good salvo and since they lack numbers, they'll die easy.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-05-16, 11:37 AM
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IIRC the Xiphon has a couple of twin linked lascannons and a S8 AP3 missile rack that does multiple damage or something. Against pretty much any flier, that'll you end their day and against anything shy of a Land Raider/Spartan, you are golden. However it's like 205 points for a 2 HP flier.

The Lightning is far more of a Swiss Army knife and pretty much can fill any role you like for a similar price range. You want anti-infantry? Take the phosphex payload. You want anti-light tanks? Take the auto cannons. You want to ruin AV 14/15? Take Kraken penetrators.

It comes down to preference. Aside from a Spartan or Land Raider, the Xiphon and Lightning can fulfil similar roles. But against those tough nuts or LoW like a Glaive of a Knight, Kraken armed Lightning is your go-to guy imo.

The list looks pretty good. I agree that the Terror Squads will quite possibly get more easily shot away, but also the Night Fighting will help them with that (buff to cover and movement). My main concern is that so many bitty squads you aren't really making the most of 'A Talent for Murder', unless they dog-pile one unit.

Since I play Emperor's Children I'm an advocate of always kitting your sergeants for a fight but if you are lacking points then you can always strip those upgrades.

Sicaran is solid, although depending on your meta you might not need that Armoured Ceremite so much. I never do.

The Contemptor is probably not the configuration I'd run it. Regular Contemptors, I think, should be one gun one fist. Two guns are better served by Contemptor Mortis I find.

I can't say I've been a massive fan of Deep Striking in terminators since they can't assault until turn 3 at the earliest and yours will just be standing around for a turn. However, if you've got enough in your opponents line at that point there's a good chance by shooting them that they will ignore stuff they shouldn't or the terminators will survive relatively unharmed. Plus, if Night Fighting is still going on then they can use that.

The Xiphon is cool and will dish out the hurt. Just be cautious because it's only got 2 HP.

The Night Raptors seem more expensive than they need to be. I find other Night Lord players tend to advocate a few chainglaives, a few power weapons and a few regular CC weapons. Enough that, with Onslaught, the combat tips in their favour and then the unit is cut down with sweeping advances. All Chainglaives is probably a bit over-kill.

I like the Skyhunters as a small harassment unit, but the sergeant is probably a bit unnecessary.

The main comment, as before, is that I don't think you will get the most from your LA:NL rules with so many bitty squads. I would trim some of the extraneous upgrades and bulk out your Terror Squads.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-05-16, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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The list looks pretty good. I agree that the Terror Squads will quite possibly get more easily shot away, but also the Night Fighting will help them with that (buff to cover and movement). My main concern is that so many bitty squads you aren't really making the most of 'A Talent for Murder', unless they dog-pile one unit.

The main comment, as before, is that I don't think you will get the most from your LA:NL rules with so many bitty squads. I would trim some of the extraneous upgrades and bulk out your Terror Squads.
Hm. To be honest, after reading the Night Lords current Rite of War in detail, I think it is somewhat self-defeating. It demands three infantry squads, Terror Squads, as minimum. But Terror Squads can never be more than 10 men, which means the only units they'll ever outnumber and benefit through 'A Talent for Murder' are the support units like Breachers, Recon and Support Squads. Plus a 10-man Terror Squad properly kitted out costs around 290pts, so three of them takes up nearly a thousand points. That is more than a third of my army spent on the minimum requirements. ATfM is clearly meant to benefit Tactical/Assault squads outfitted for melee, while Terror Squads provide support via infiltrate and the ability to carry up to 10 special weapons if you can spend the points, yet the RoW makes you take them as your primary units, which in my opinion they shouldn't be.

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Sicaran is solid, although depending on your meta you might not need that Armoured Ceremite so much. I never do.
Noted.

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The Contemptor is probably not the configuration I'd run it. Regular Contemptors, I think, should be one gun one fist. Two guns are better served by Contemptor Mortis I find.
I think I see that now.

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I can't say I've been a massive fan of Deep Striking in terminators since they can't assault until turn 3 at the earliest and yours will just be standing around for a turn. However, if you've got enough in your opponents line at that point there's a good chance by shooting them that they will ignore stuff they shouldn't or the terminators will survive relatively unharmed. Plus, if Night Fighting is still going on then they can use that.
Your point is taken, yet the ability to Deep Strike Terminators is one of the few things that the NLs can do that no other Legion can. If I don't use that ability, I can't really see the point in even having Terminators in this Legion.


I do appreciate all the advice Deus, but truthfully the more I read about the Night Lords rules, the less interested I become. I love them fluff-wise, but crunch-wise it seems that the demands of their RoW require me to build an army that doesn't really do it for me. I dislike the required Terror Squads, when in my eyes they should be elites rather than troops, the limits on heavy support and aforementioned self-defeating ability/limits (IMO) just makes the army fall short of what I wanted them to be.

Like I said I do love the NLs, and not having Sevatar in my HH army would be sad, but they admittedly aren't my only choice. The Iron Warriors, Emperor's Children and Death Guard all have rules/units that appeal to me based on what I have read, and the Thousand Sons as a psyker Legion could be a lot of fun if FW ever gets around to releasing the Prospero book.

Will take some time to think, and perhaps come up with a list for IW, EC and DG and see what that looks like.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-05-16, 08:53 PM
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I always figured Terror Squads were not so self defeating because the Volkites they can have will hose down units quite well with 20 S 5 Deflagrate shots with Preferred Enemy (Infantry) (again, IIRC) by which time such a squad should be small enough for ATfM to kick in.

The alternative could be to just not take their Rite of War. You could run no Rite or something like Angel's Wrath and have a couple of Tacticals in Storm Eagles, deep strike some terminators and have a Terror Squad or two infiltrated up (I might have that wrong, Angel's Wrath might not allow you to infiltrate). Your possibilities are pretty varied.

If you can hold out until Feb, all the Legions will get a new Rite and there will be some more generic ones released so one of those might appeal to you more.

Having said that, the Death Guard and Iron Warriors are both pretty great as are the Emperor's Children (but I'm a bit biased on this legion).

As for Prospero we heard that the 40k Birthday Bash that Retribution would come out in Feb and Prospero would be later in 2016. Hopefully we'll hear more at the weekender in Feb.

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My growing IIIrd legion stuff:

17th Millenial (Homebrew Fluff) - "Children of the Emperor, death to his foes!" (Project Log)

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-05-16, 08:54 PM
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It's far from a requirement to run the Legion-specific Rite of War. I like it, because Infiltrating a shitload of Preferred Enemy Volkite Chargers into the enemy's grill makes a hell of an alpha strike, with the option of making real surprise deployments; with the Night Lords Terminators getting near-exclusive access to Transponders, and Terror Assault giving you access to your common or garden Drop Pod rather than the horribly overpriced Dreadclaw. Lots of people in 30k aren't expecting that, and with the sheer amount of damage the Terror Squads can put out at short range (people are surprised when the massed Str5 shooting unit rolls up with Fear at -1 Ld and 2 attacks each!) plus what you get from your Drop Pod troops, you can really prey on the weak and vulnerable while your opponent's battle plan shatters under your attack from all angles. That alpha strike gets supported by your army-wide 5+ cover save on turn 1; not just a glass cannon! Terror Squads and Drop Pod units also get close enough, quickly enough that the +1 Initiative during Night Fighting (the forgotten NL rule) can actually apply - and when it does, it's brutal. Terror Assault is also a money-saver, as the low model count of Terror Squads and the plastic 40k Drop Pod with NL transfers makes 30k as a whole a deal more affordable.

I've also made lists that revolve around a Talent for Murder; generally, I think the Angel's Wrath RoW is the best since since you want a Jump Pack anyway as to near-guarantee outnumbering your opponent. If Jump Packs aren't your thing, then you can stick your 20-man Tactical Squads into their dedicated Storm Eagles, soften them up a bit with the missiles and little guns, then charge in and get your bonuses unhindered (if you haven't got Angel's Wrath, you usually end up losing enough guys on the way into combat that you can't use Talent for Murder anyway). I don't think it's as strong an option, as you lose the at-worst 5+ cover save on the first turn as you're in reserves, but if you're lucky enough to roll your 4+ you can get a 3+ Jink on turn 2 to get you into combat safely on turn 3. Assault Marine-heavy armies can make use of both benefits - they really like the auto-Night Fighting, and they can realistically get into combat on turn 2 and maybe use that +1 Initiative bonus. When you're ripping into combat on turn 2, striking at I5 with +1 to wound, you'll see why systems capitulate at once instead of facing the unforgiving talons of the Night Lords! Ave Dominus Nox!

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-05-16, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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A post where pretty much every sentence was badass.
Ok. After reading this I went back to the drawing board for the Night Lords, especially since everything you just said is what I wanted from them, and came up with an 1850pt list and 2500pt list that uses every part of the Terror Assault RoW from mandatory Terror Squads, Trophies of Judgement, Teleportation Transponder, the Chainglaive, etc. And then I made sure to add what you mentioned, common Drop Pods and larger Terror Squads armed with better weaponry.

Hopefully these are the improvements that were needed to make a worthy list.

Also quick question regarding a particular upgrade; according to the rules the Nostraman Chainglaive can be taken by an IC or Character that can purchase a Power Weapon at the same price. The Terminator Sergeant has a Power Weapon automatically, does that mean he can switch it for the Chainglaive for free (Both lists assume this is so) or does he have to pay the cost of a Power Fist for it?


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