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post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-03-15, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
Stop being overly dramatic, your army isn't invalidated it has just seen a few changes. So you lost the ability to make a moderately powerful alpha strike, its not like you have a completely unusable army now.
You are right its not completely unusable just nearly so.
SM,GK,BA, iirc SW can make that moderately powerful alpha strike, you know what else they can do? They can simply start on the board.
Lets look at not so Deathwing Strike Force.
Can I field my army on the table turn one legally without begging? No.
Can I use any of my land raiders in the same CAD. No.
Do I have to buy more models that I did not have to/want to. Yes. ( Drop pods, Ravenwing)
Did I loose the ability to use my FW Land Raiders ( and Deredeo). Yes. ( No more heavy support)

Lets say that I take 5 Dreadnoughts in DP so 3 arrive turn one and 2 arrive turn 2. (thats about 700 points with upgrades, so half your force (not very optimal for 5 models either). There is pretty good chance they will be shot of the board with that low av12/10 before your turn 2. There is a good chance that none of your terminators will arrive turn 2. You can loose just by having no models on the table in turn one or two.
Most people dont have more than 1 or 2 Dreads. I have just 3.
If I recall correctly DW could be a stand alone force since something like 2nd or 3rd edition and every edition forward except Now.
Going unbound is mostly not liked and unaccepted in tournaments. Also shows poor rule writing.
And if you gonna bring up that you shouldnt play DW in tournaments because they are not competitive. Well I choose what I want to play. Except now I cant.

Ravenwing is a requirement if you dont want to loose by having your force not show up.
Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
The hammerfall assault force is a formation in the strtikeforce ultra dataslate; its one half of the strikeforce. The new marine codex has a modified version of strikeforce ultra, with different special rules (like normal terminators getting +1 shot to their weapons on the turn they arrive from deep strike rather than being able to run and shoot) but I don't think its a stretch that you can still use the hammerfall and skyspear formations from the dataslate.
Thanks for clarrifying that, now explain to me why can they arrive turn one while DW could do it for many many years before they arbitrarily decided they cant, compared to other codex that has a way to do it.
You can say you can use that formation, or rule but why do I need to jump through loops and hoops just to play my army. why do I need more than one book to play my army. Why should I buy more formations and codices?

Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
First yes I did, and second no it does not force you to take ravenwing. It gives yuou a very, very good incentive to take ravenwing but by no means forces you to take them. Once again stop being dramatic.

A sisters of batle CAD forces you to take battle sisters as troops, a Khorne daemonkin slaughtercult forces you to take possessed, a space marine demi company forces you to take three tactical squads. The deathwing strike force gives you a very good incentive to take ravenwing, it doesn't force you.
Interesting that you bring that up... So SOB CAD allows them to take their own basic troop choice as troops. Khorne and SM DC do the same. So why cant Deathwing take their own basic troop choice ( DW Terminators) as troops without having to take something thats not related to them?
What if SOB CAD required you to take IG guardsmen. Khorne required you to take Slannesh Daemonnets, and SM DC wanted you to take bikers? Guardsmen are not part of SOB, Daemonnets are not part of Khorne, and Bikers are not part of a Battle Company. Same as Ravenwing are not part of Deathwing.
Your point is moot and doesnt make sense. And if you want to bring up fluff reasoning.
Deathwing go to battle alone more then once. Latest Unforgiven novel shows at least 4 examples of that.(Defense of the Rock (central gate wall), Boarding of enemy ships(Anovels Flagship, Terminus Est, also they led DW counter charge mounted in Land Raiders)

Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
And again, with the list I put up before, you couldn't field something like that with your 3k army? A dred, four land raiders, and about thirty five terminators.
3k army? Are you kidding me who ever plays 3k games weekly? Thats absurd. Here no one plays above 1500-1750 even tournaments are no more than 1750. No one even plays apocalypse around here, and I dont usually see any 2k point game.
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