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post #28 of (permalink) Old 07-30-13, 10:42 AM
Apostle
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Not really, they predicted the logical outcomes of an event based on the principles of farseeing. They didn't possess knowledge that no other single entity possessed. Remember, there were numerous warnings from numerous individuals prior to the Heresy about Horus and his rebellion.

Right, however you could easily argue that the Alpha Legion was persuaded to make a (very arguable) but still plausible future point that they knew far more than the Emperor. Why didn't the Emperor forsee what these ancient Psykers saw? Because he was busy building on a Webway. Possibly sure, but an all powerful Psyker like the Emperor later is said to watch over and know all things that pose a threat the Imperium now that he is on the Golden Throne. Did his foresight get stronger after Horus beat him around a little bit? He sure did not see enough futures to prevent Chaos from constantly torturing the Imperium.



"Maybe. But what does that prove?"

I fully concede on the Xenophobia part and his need for Imperial expansion. Especially now that I am willing to admit I'm wrong today.





The Emperor didn't deny that the Heresy was going on, nor did he refrain from allowing Dorn (as acting Warmaster) to fight back. The Emperor wasn't involved in the Heresy whatsoever until the twilight of the Siege of Terra, he was too busy fighting the Secret War. Of course he recognised the Chaos taint, if you read Collected Visions the rhetoric is very much the Emperor versus Chaos rather than the Emperor versus Horus.

I have read all of the Collected Visions several times. However the overall 40k story contradicts itself in many ways. (Though it is probably my favorite story based game.) I always found it funny that after the crusade against the Orks and the appointing of the Warmaster was considered the great success of that struggle to the Emperor. How come the forces of Chaos became the major threat after that, and suddenly he needed to go back to Terra. You can not possible tell me that the Emperor believed he only needed to stay in the Great Crusade only until the Orks were temporarily put down. (Then amazingly his secret war was most important....Orks or the full brunt of Chaos...I would say the Emperor should have discovered his sons and IMMEDIATLY left for the Golden Throne. Especially if the forces of Chaos had decided not to try taking over the empire and thought they would wait for the Orks to try.



Perhaps he wasn't beyond saving.

He begged for forgiveness at the very end. the smartest thing the Emperor did since creating the Astartes was to kill his insolent son for beating him and laughing his ass off while he did it.



I didn't realise we were talking about the "most powerful", I was under the impression we were talking about the "most powerful psyker". Regardless, the Emperor was resigned to confronting Horus personally aboard the Vengeful Spirit years before he actually did (see Nemesis). Given, he hesitated momentarily during the final duel (not only for emotional reasons, but also out of disbelief of how powerful Horus had become and that he was losing) but I don't think you can criticise him for that.

My mistake on the above, I did not make it even close to clear. I used the word Psyker making most of my arguments invalid.

You're implying that the Emperor made bad decisions. Care to elaborate?
Yes, getting his ass kicked by Horus. Being unable to accept anything but the fact Magnus didn't do what daddy said.I think Magnus would have won the war against Horus, he was so powerful if the Emperor had simply asked him to come and assist Terra then presumably the World Eaters Primarch Angron would have perished quickly. Even a normal Astartes Psyker caused him even more than usual pain from the butchers nails. Think what Magnus could do....Angrons head would explode at least if he hadn't reached daemon prince status. Try not to look at everything based on what is written in stone. Because of the large amount of writers in this series, it is easy and appropriate to form opinions. BL has overridden it's own facts more than once. As a senior historian in my mind, I would think you of all people would know this.
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