Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums - View Single Post - Daemons? What are your thoughts
View Single Post
post #5 of (permalink) Old 06-04-13, 09:59 PM
experiment 626
Senior Member
experiment 626's Flag is: Canada
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 435
Reputation: 2

Overall I find the new Daemons book to be a massive fail...

- Reign of Comedy table.
Likely one of the outright worst things in the whole book! What does it do? It either tends to do nothing at all, or else it sodomises one player rather viciously in the Magic Phase... A low roll for example not only bones the Daemon player's actual casting abilities, but it also screws you over over by potentially zapping a character, (perhaps your Lv4 who costs over 500pts?!), leaves you pretty much naked unless you play Nurgle, or can outright insta-gib your entire army! (or more likely, you lose a rank across multiple units, sometimes suddenly swinging a combat drastically in favour of your opponent)
Or on a high roll, the Daemon player gets to feth-over their opponent badly, either by potentially nuking their main dispeller, or how's about bringing in a 'free' unit late game to instantly contest/claim areas?!

I know they wanted the table to be fluffy and all, but for feth's sake, it should have been kept to the Shooting Phase like 40k's version... The Daemonic shooting phase is pretty empty as it is. Putting it here not only alleviates the likelihood of one player getting unfairly raped in what's possibly the most important phase of the game outside of movement, but it also stops the game from slowing down to a damn crawl when working out the 'Angry God shows up' results that are guess what... worked out like shooting attacks anyways?!

Oh and finally, why are my Instruments suddenly so useless in Fantasy?! I can actually spam more of them in 40k ya know, so it's not like the re-roll would break the table when the 'God X shows up' results come about...
As it is, I get to watch, completely helpless as Nurgle dances across my Tzeentch units, or else Slaanesh eats that Skullcannon.

And the kicker? Going by RAW, the God-storms only effect Chaos units unless you have a copy of the FAQ! (and even then, I know those who try to argue against it...)

- BSB & General issues.
For some moronic reason, our Inspiring Presence & BSB rules only work on 25% of our army book... Again, I know the aim is to be fluffy, so why not just stop these rules from affecting the opposing gods?! (ie: a BSB of Khorne won't benefit any Slaanesh units and vice-versa, ditto for Tzeentch/Nurgle)
As it is, you're now shoehorned into going mono-god, or else building your army around 1-2 huge bricks of infantry in order to gain the same abilities of every other army you'll ever face.

Stupid mechanic that no other army has to put up with!

- Overnerfing.
We all know that Daemons needed toning down. Hell, even Daemon players agreed our book was utterly filthy in 7th! But as always, the book goes way too far on the main culprits...
Look at the poor state of Bloodletters for example. -1S, lose Hatred from Heralds AND a +2pts per gribbly increase!
Seriously, just hitting them with the pts increase alone would have been enough, or else knocking their strength by -1 and a +1pt/model increase would have been a good nerf...

Overall though, Tzeentch & Khorne are next to useless outside of LoC, ambushing Doggies & Skillcannons.
Tzeentch magic especially is laughably weak. The God of fething magic now knows only 2 magic lores?! Seriously, WTF? Would it have been so heinously unbalanced if Tzheralds kept their Master of Sorcery gift, but be forced to generate spells normally? (ie: keep it similar to the VC version)

- Heralds are generally overcosted crap.
Nurgle Heralds are the only ones that are decent now... Khorne Heralds have the most laughably overcosted Locii of anyone. 75pts for Hatred?! On a T4/W2 character with a 5++... Tzheralds instead of being wizards have 2/3 loci abilities that boost theirs & their unit's fighting abilities, but you don't want them anywhere near combat?!
Add to this how badly organised the Rewards are and you've got yourself the outright worst characters in the game.

- Rewards.
Compare them to the 40k versions, and the organisation of them is laughable... It's almost impossible to get protection on your Heroes, while the decent Magic Weapon options become overcosted due to having to pay a flat 50pts for the 30-40pts range weapons.
At least in 40k for example, if you want a protective Reward, you can go for a Greater Reward and 4 or the 6 results make you harder to kill, making it reasonably reliable. The Fantasy book though has 1 protective reward in the Exalted level, 3 in the Greater level and 1 in the Lesser level...
Not cool at all that we're the only army that can't reliably protect our characters, including our Lv4 wizards who tend to cost at least 400-500+ pts!

I also find that unlike in the 40k version, you tend to either luck into really good rewards, or you get useless crap. Heralds are especially vulnerable to bad gift rolls, meaning you're almost always better off just forgetting about rewards entirely, or else just auto-taking something like Fencer's Blades on a Nurgle Herald.

Overall I find the new Daemons book is a massive mess of internally imbalanced crap...
Nurgle is amazing, Slaanesh & Khorne have a couple good choices, and Tzeentch is pretty much just kicked to the curb outside of the LoC w/Wand 'o Win.

It just feels like Ward didn't really want to put any kind of effort into this book, and so Daemon players are now stuck with a pile of crap ala 7th ed Orcs & Gobbos.

And then he finished crapping on us by going and writing the new High Elf book which is pretty much bringing the Grey Knight type of shenanigans to Fantasy! (F-you Banner of UltimateSkill Dragon!!!)
experiment 626 is offline  
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome