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post #18 of (permalink) Old 08-04-12, 04:49 PM
Chompy Bits
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Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
Hunting him through the EoT? I can't imagine many Loyalists making their way to the Planet of the Sorcerers. The problem is though there is that Magnus chose certain damnation by joining Horus, while staying out of the Heresy and manipulating events to possibly save his Legion in the long run would be more logical.
Well, we know Russ sent the 13th Great Company to pursue the Sons. And there isn't a question of being damned by joining Horus. Magnus had already ascended to daemonhood at that stage. He was as damned as you can be in the eyes of the Imperium already. And save what? His legion was already decimated to barely a 1000 warriors by the time he joined Horus, so sitting out and "manipulating events" really wouldn't have gotten him anywhere, except more distrust from others.

Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
Indirectly it is. If Horus hadn't turned traitor, then the Sons wouldn't have been decimated by the Wolves for the reason they were. Regardless of whether the Sons would have been destroyed later by the flesh-change, or by breaking the Edict of Nikaea, I'm baffled by how quickly they accepted their lot. They may have been fucked before the Heresy, but Horus turning was the actual fucking, so to speak.
Yes, Horus turning influenced what happened to them. But the fact is that Horus could have turned without the Sons falling in the process. It was the arrogance of Magnus that ultimately was their downfall. It was Magnus' choice in the end to disobey the Emperor's decree and use sorcery. And you are also ignoring the fact that chaos had been manipulating both the Wolves and the Sons, for several decades at least, to turn against each other.

Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
Running from possible destruction to certain servitude? Isn't much of a bargain there. I don't know I just see the Thousand Sons as smarter than that. They were the only Legion out of 18 that had the broadest understanding of the Immaterium, and they allow themselves to become slaves to a higher power? After centuries of teaching and training in the arts they roll over? Madness.
Serving Tzeentch would in all likelyhood actually have been a far better alternative than being utterly destroyed by the Wolves. A promise of knowledge and power, without the constraints placed on them by the Imperium. Sounds like it could appeal to them. Also, it becomes clear in A Thousand Sons that they might know more than most of the others about the Warp, but that they really only know the bare minimum themselves. Even Magnus only fully realised the true nature of the warp in the end when it was too late to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
Why piss off the traitors and sabotage them? Well, the Galaxy was in the predicament it was in because of Horus' fall, and Magnus always held in his teachings that Humanity should be enlightened and cradled and guided and the like. I would have thought, that as a reluctant traitor Magnus would have held true to at least a smidgeon of these teachings? Why hamper a potential ally? Because that potential ally was the reason, directly or indirectly, leading to the Legions almost destruction.

And no return to loyalty or redemption, but vengeance against the main culprits perhaps.
But remember that this isn't the same Magnus who had served the Imperium loyally. He was a broken shell of his former self, who had witnessed brother turn on brother and watched his world and legion burn for his mistakes. Also, like I mentioned earlier, he had already ascended to daemonhood, thus literally becoming a small part of Tzeentch. It's likely that this would have had some impact on his personality.

Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
There is actually more evidence right now for it being Horus who manipulated the Wolves, since it was actually stated in the earlier Heresy novels, than it being Valdor who, quite frankly, I haven't heard one convincing argument for.
Except like I said, The Outcast Dead changes things so that Horus was already known as a traitor by then. Hell, the Dropsite Massacre occurs within the timeframe of the book. The 7 legion fleet had already been sent to Isstvan when Magnus' warning arrives on Terra. And we know from A Thousand Sons that Valdor did have some influence. Magnus still notes it when he observes the Space Wolf fleet approaching Prospero. And why would Valdor be upset? Magnus not only broke the Nikaea decree (something we know Custodians are really anal about) but endangered the life of the Emperor in doing so (who is really Valdor's sole purpose for existence) and the entire safety of Terra as well. Not only that, but the chances are good that many Custodians died defending the breach Magnus had created from daemons. So there's plenty of reason for Valdor to be pissed.

Originally Posted by LongfangFenrika93 View Post
Magnus may well have liked Horus and Lorgar, but after learning that Horus and Lorgar were about to bring the Galaxy to the brink of annihilation, I think he may have reconsidered. And I'm pretty sure that Magnus could do more than simply wait to die.
But he did try to warn Horus when he found out what was going to happen. It didn't work. By the time he learned the whole truth he really was too far gone down the road of damnation to do anything other than what he did.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

No one really likes a smartass, but people tend to like a dumbass even less.

Last edited by Chompy Bits; 08-04-12 at 04:54 PM.
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