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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-13-11, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Brother Arnold View Post
Everyone has their own big flaws except the goody-two shoes completely perfect High Elves.
Actually, they are far from perfect. The High Elves are an arrogant race who show nothing but disdain to all the younger races. They put themselves above them considering the younger races are their playthings. They even still hold slaves, although not like their kin in Naggaroth. High elf slaves are more or less servants but still they are bought. The only reason High Elves would fight next to men or seemingly save mankind or any other race is because the event threatened them as well. The High Elves are still loyal to the Old Ones and consider Chaos a taint to be expunged so they'll march forth and try to destroy Chaos, Skaven and ofcourse Dark Elves. Should it just happen that they save a kingdom or empire by it, well that's quite the image boost. High Elves have become decadent, drinking wine all day long, keeping such things as pleasureslaves (Could be they just like to have those around, no idea but still) and be lazy. There are exceptions which you find amongst the units like Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard but the average High Elf civilian is quite like I described. They don't differ so much from thei evil kin with the exception that they don't get kicks on inflicting pain.

Now to go back on topic. A Warrior of Chaos gone good is probably something like a dwarf shaking an Orcs hand and saying things like "Ah, the hell with what happened two thousand years ago, lets be friends. I have some good human ale to share and I'm thinking of letting my house be redone by some architect from Altdorf. Very good crafters, those humans."

So, no. As said before, Chaos gives them the outlets they couldn't find in their previous religion. And Chaos doesn't sees itsself as bad, perhaps maybe the daemons who must know very well what they're doing. Chaos tribesmen are raised that way. Their world is a doggy eat doggy world where they need to fight to live by the hour while the weaklings in the south enjoy their harvest and sit on their cushioned thrones. According to the Chaos followers, their rightfull ownings got taken away from them and they're deathset to retrieve them.

The reason for all this I think is because in the North they accept things like mutations seeing it as a blessing from their gods. But down in the south they consider it as attrocities done to the already perfectly shaped body of man by the Gods. I've once read a piece of fluff (can't remember where) about a merchant doing trade with the southmost tribes. He told how every three nights women and children left the village and went to the mountains nearby going into caves. Apparently these caves where the houses of their husbands/fathers, men mutated by chaos so badly they are close to spawnhood. They lived in the caves because they were a threat to anyone else than their family. They saw the mutations as a great blessing.

And if you also take in consideration that the greatest honour is to become a deamon prince, which is just your soul being trapped and becoming a plaything for a deamon while it takes over your body. Then you can quite say that the followers of Chaos can in no way be compared to the southeners. They have no regrets, what might happen is that a warrior becomes so arrogant that they challenge the Chaos Gods themselves, that mostly ends up badly for the warrior.

The Guardsman is just like you, from any city in the mighty Imperium he goes and fights a war he does not fully understand. Unlike many in this galaxy he is not genetically altered clad in powered armor or inhumanly fast. he wears only his vest helmet and holds his lasrifle. He is a guardsman and HE WILL HOLD THE LINE

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-24-11, 06:55 AM
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This raises a valid thought i had for the Fluff of my army, i decided to go with an idea of having Warriors of Chaos (pure Tzeentch army) where Tzeentch is Promising the warrband Immortality and Strength if they carry out his wishes, because he is the lord of change maybe these are just some playthings he intends to try out, or maybe he is yet to subject them to something horrific. Either way their blindly following him and hoping to please him for the boons they're receiving. (in this case unconsciously they dont know whats planned for them) or perhaps they gained favour through rooting out lesser followers and such.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-24-11, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Amenhotep View Post
Also, i don't really see any of the warhammer races as being 'Good' per se, all of them are in it for themselves at the cost of others afterall, the Bret Lords don't have any qualms with keeping their subjects firmly under the heel, and the Empire's hardly a fun place to live either for that matter...
[Dwarf fanboy alert] True but the dwarfs are always supportive of men and if the elves hadn't screwed them over, I imagine they'd give them a helping hand every now and again.

It is said that the guttural sound of Dwarfs bellowing Grungni’s name is enough to make an Elf’s knees knock and a Goblin turn a sickly shade of yellow!
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-25-11, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mursaat View Post
This raises a valid thought i had for the Fluff of my army, i decided to go with an idea of having Warriors of Chaos (pure Tzeentch army) where Tzeentch is Promising the warrband Immortality and Strength if they carry out his wishes, because he is the lord of change maybe these are just some playthings he intends to try out, or maybe he is yet to subject them to something horrific. Either way their blindly following him and hoping to please him for the boons they're receiving. (in this case unconsciously they dont know whats planned for them) or perhaps they gained favour through rooting out lesser followers and such.
That is indeed one of the ways of Tzeentch. The stronger ones using the weaker ones to do their bidding by promises and only sometimes brute force. Tzeentch is a force of subtility and mainly backstabbing. One might be favoured one day to fall prey the next. Tzeentch mainly works on knowledge. So where Tzeentch promises immortality he's more offering the knowledge to become immortal, but he never says how. Does the mortal actually live untill the blade claims him, does he become immortal in name? Or even better, does he get possessed?

The chaos gods are fickle and tend to change moods, and they all want to outboast eachother with their strongest champions. It's also this theory of mine that the only reason Chaos has not conquered the empire yet is because the gods do not want it. Without the Empire who then shall they deprave by base lusts and lures, who shall they fight when they get bored once more with eachother. The gods do not always want blood of their own, they want to inflict hurt on the other gods and their followers. Should the Old World be conquered by chaos, well, that's no fun anymore.

The Guardsman is just like you, from any city in the mighty Imperium he goes and fights a war he does not fully understand. Unlike many in this galaxy he is not genetically altered clad in powered armor or inhumanly fast. he wears only his vest helmet and holds his lasrifle. He is a guardsman and HE WILL HOLD THE LINE

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-11, 10:48 PM
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I can imagine that once in a few centuries a Chaos Warrior might come along with enough strength of willto tun away from his gods, and perhaps even resist their power enough to not devolve into a spawn. However, to do that once they have dedicated themselved to Chaos in the first place, it is doubtful that they would do it for such a banal reason as "goodness". They would at best become an amoral "atheist", a lone warrior serving some personal code that is likely no more subjectively "good" than anything that the Chaos Gods enforce.
And don't forget, the Chaos Gods are nothing if not insideous. Even Khorne can be subtle, such an individual would be under constant assault by their old master, as well as the other Gods once they become such a "free agent." Not to mention that every other follower that remains loyal to the Dark Gods would seek to take the ultimate trophy and would maintain a constant assault against the free hero. And the religions and cities of the more "civilized" lands would probably be no more welcoming than before, so no refuge would be available.
An individual with that amount of power and will would be a welcome prize to any of the Gods, and would likely be under constant assault. Every action, every thought, every emotion would have to be hardened and tempered lest one or another of the Gods gain a new fingerhold in his psyche.
Likely they wouldn't survive long, and odds are there would be less than one in a generation on average.

Check out my Codex: Scions of Slaanesh (Grey Knights complete rewrite)
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?p=959181

And my Necromunda Escher gang project log (with lots of pictures)
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/....php?p=1007914

In our embrace of the pleasures of the flesh we feel the embrace of the Dark Prince
She asks nothing of us but to enjoy life, and in doing so we bring glory to Him
Give up your petty faiths and morals and join us in the bosom of the Goddess of Pleasure
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-13, 03:20 AM
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Default Its black and black

You need a good excuse which is kind of a plot device,
but you have to consider bad taste and good taste.
Here are the excuses:

A. They turn from Chaos Gods but they are still bad.

B. They become fanatical warrior of atonement, seeking
purge their past sins. ( see Dark Angels)

C. They shield themselves from Chaos with a spell.( Dark Eldar)

D. They switch side to a minor Chaos God.( Malal and others)

E. They turn themselves into a minor Chaos God, hoping
to guarantee not becoming chaos spawns.
I don't worship X... I imitate X.


D. they make themselves soulless or become soulless only for the warp,
see( Necrons and Tau)



CONSIDER BLACK VS BLACK AND BAD TASTE


It's important that Chaos stay bad, because Black and Black
and evil versus evil.
Chaos armies show that the grey "light" side are just as black
and bad as them.

All the factions are evil vs evil
plus Chaos is not pure black gloom, it's also the more neutral force of chaotic stuff in real life.

Better yet, Your army doesn't need to turn "good",
because every player are supposed to think their army is the exception
to some degree.

But here are some ideas:
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-13, 04:07 AM
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I'd call it possible for a warrior who followed the Undivided path to turn back -though not after a certain point. However, for a cult warrior to turn back? Impossible, once they enter into a contract with a specific god, they belong to them until they die. So, then they'd be left in a particularly nasty situation... say, spawndom, Slaaneshi sex slave, that sort of thing.

You can't just back out of a contract with a wrathful God who doesn't give an unholy shit about you in the long run. All they've got to do is snap their fingers and turn you into a slimy amalgam of tentacles slithering across the floor. Also, your non-chaos Gods wouldn't exactly be forgiving and -by extension- neither would their followers.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-13, 09:40 AM
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The only circumstance that springs to mind that would lead to a Warrior (rather than a tribesman) abandoning the Ruinous Powers is a scheme by Tzeentch; for example pretending to be Ulric and giving more gifts than the Chaos Patron.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-20-13, 01:28 AM
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I was actually thinking of this for a story specifically about a Norse marauder turned sigmarite convert.

The way I figure it, unless you are actually living in the wastes or right on the edge of the wastes, your soul is essentially 'fair game' and you aren't bound to anyone, this is evidence strongly in the Norse, the chaos tribes we know the most about who have nuanced cultures, laws, ettiquete, rules of behavior and other such social shenanigans even if it is much more barbaric, but barbarism is not really a factor in defining a person as chaotic. Sigmar was a barbarian afterall by modern WHFB standards (although it is heresy to point this out) And given a view novels involving norse characters, they certainly hate the southerners, but they trade, politik and intertravel regardless and, more to the point, I am willing to bet a substantial portion of Norse worship of the chaos gods is less in the vein of the religious worship and devotion of most organized religions and more along the lines of cautious appeasement. "We have honoured the gods, hopefully the plague father overlooks us and our flock this winter." But there is no reason to suspect these people not to worship southern gods as well, particularly gods they may hold in equal belief with the south (Manaan, Morr, the god of the sea and the god of death and dreams), given how shamanistic the norse tend to be religion wise, Morr as god of dreams would probably be particularly influential.

We need to think of this at a human level from the perspective of the average norse in a steading.

That said, if a chaos champion waltzes through your steading with a banner of the heads of cheiftans who failed to pledge their troops to his incursion into the empire, you damn well skippy better commit. But the Norse are a ruthlessly practical people. They know the gods of the north exist, but they have, personally, seen chaos fail too many damn times to conquer the empire not to at least think the gods of the southerners might not be totally bunk afterall, and they are certainly aware of the powers of the sigmarite warrior priests.

Since the majority of chaos hordes are made up of tribals in more hospitable (if still deadly) enviroments such as norsca, there's no reason not to suspect that conversion of said warriors is not only possible but likely has happened, alot. It is probably endemic on norse mercenaries who adopt southern gods which take their fancy.

You'll likely never get Norse clans to adopt southern ways of life. But the idea of sigmarite (or some minor heretical offshoot of sigamrite faith that developed as other clans cut off their contact with the larger cult) tribesmen existing valiently in the north and view the conversion and (due to old habits dying hard) sacrifice of their enemies to the mangod sigmar to be a very interesting concept and not as untenable as it might first appear.

However, anyone from within 1500 miles of the chaos gates is a lost cause from the getgo.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-21-13, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Galloglasses View Post
I was actually thinking of this for a story specifically about a Norse marauder turned sigmarite convert.
I suggest picking up Knight of the Blazing Sun, my favorite knight order book, it has the perspective of a Norse Raider and a cynical Knight. It shows that while the more 'civilized' Norsemen worship the chaos gods they frown upon letting your self devolve into a pawn of the chaos gods. It also shows that the norsemen are humans like anyone else, so I say if a southerner can turn to chaos why can't a northerner turn to another god.

I also found a bit of fluff about amazons, it mention that they were originally women from a norse village.

Favorite line in the book


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Arnold View Post
Everyone has their own big flaws except the goody-two shoes completely perfect High Elves
You want to see elven flaws just read/ read about the Great Betrayal/War of The Beard, that war was solely caused by elven flaws and then had a napalm bomb dropped on it.

Last edited by locustgate; 02-16-13 at 11:52 AM.
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