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Reply With Quote Lord Reevan is offline
  #1 Old 09-17-08, 11:15 PM feel no pain confusion
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Default feel no pain confusion

I know it says that ap 1 or 2 weapons ignore Feel no pain but it also says that any wound that does not allow a save so Here's the question. If the wound is caused by a weapon with an equal ap to your armour save is Feel no pain allowed?

Say a 4+ save being hit by a heavy bolter, No armour save is allowed in this example so does that make FNP void? People say no because it states two ap weapons so the other ones are allowed.... I'm confused.....
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  #2 Old 09-17-08, 11:24 PM feel no pain confusion
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With Feel No Pain, the issue isn't whether or not the attack's AP rating disallows that particular model's save. Rather, the question is whether the attack disallows all armor saves. AP1 and AP2 weapons are an additional special case rather than an example of not being allowed saves.
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  #3 Old 09-18-08, 12:12 AM feel no pain confusion
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As Solkan said. It isn't talking about weapons that disallow YOUR save, but rather weapons that disallow ALL armour saves, so power weapons and the like, and any special weapons/attacks that don't allow saves against them (such as the winds of chaos psyhic power, which doesn't have AP, but doesn't allow armour saves). So an AP 3 weapon against a Plague marine, the PM still gets FNP.
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  #4 Old 09-18-08, 12:34 AM feel no pain confusion
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Exactly right Solkan and maddermax. Other examples of weapons that dis-allow armor saves entirely are rending, some daemon weapons, warscythes and the like.
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Reply With Quote Lord Reevan is offline
  #5 Old 09-18-08, 08:42 AM feel no pain confusion
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Okay that cleared it up a lot thanks guys =)
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Reply With Quote Ordo Xeno Commander is offline
  #6 Old 09-18-08, 09:19 AM feel no pain confusion
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Now this is where I disagree, I reckon if the weapon does not allow YOU an armour save, then you don't get FNP. Take an AP3 bolter vs a SM with FNP (just because he can ). The SM wouldn't get FNP because the AP3 value denies your man the armour save. It may allow a Termie to get his, but will deny your marine both his armour save and his FNP, which is why AP1 + 2 weapons are mentioned, because they are the most common weapon that doesn't allow armour saves.
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  #7 Old 09-18-08, 10:20 AM feel no pain confusion
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I read this whole thread on some other forums, and the general consensus is that for ranged attacks only AP 1 or 2 ignore FNP. There fore if its AP3 it wouldn't ignore the FNP rule. So i disagree with your disagreement Ordo. AP is armour penetration and so technically it isnt ignoring armour saves, like a power weapon, its just showing its ballistic penetration strength of the weapon.

The way to look at it really, cos in my eyes its quite simple. If a weapon says Ignore armour saves or has AP 1 or 2 then those are the situations you ignore FNP.
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  #8 Old 09-18-08, 11:09 AM feel no pain confusion
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....against any other wound that no armor save can ever be taken.

A termie would get his armor save against your AP3 bolter hence FNP cannot be negated by that weapon.
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  #9 Old 09-18-08, 11:16 AM feel no pain confusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordo Xeno Commander View Post
Now this is where I disagree, I reckon if the weapon does not allow YOU an armour save, then you don't get FNP. Take an AP3 bolter vs a SM with FNP (just because he can ). The SM wouldn't get FNP because the AP3 value denies your man the armour save. It may allow a Termie to get his, but will deny your marine both his armour save and his FNP, which is why AP1 + 2 weapons are mentioned, because they are the most common weapon that doesn't allow armour saves.

an AP3 weapon does not disallow armour saves though, it merely means 3+ or worse saves aren't good enough to protect the wearer.

the armour is a seperate entity to the ability of it's wearer to take damage.

the intention is that if the weapon states "no armour saves are allowed", then the model taking the wound does not get FNP, however if it is simply a case that the weapon has an AP value that stops the armour from working, rather than the weapon dissallowing armour saves in general, then FNP may still be taken.
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  #10 Old 09-18-08, 12:09 PM feel no pain confusion
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Default Nothing quite like

There's nothing quite like saying something ridiculous to really get a thread going. I take it that we are all agreed that FnP works the way is described in the RAW now?

What bothers me is how tough it seems to make my opponents and how well it establishes that I must be playing with dice numbered 1-3...
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