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  #11 Old 01-20-12, 11:04 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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Screamers have S5 flaming hits for flying over a unit, can march 20" a turn and still aren't considered that good.

I don't think I'll ever see this unit if they are as bad as I think they are: sure they would annoy me with the type of armies I run... but the vast majority of people out there would just laugh at them and either ignore them or just magic them to pieces.
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  #12 Old 01-21-12, 12:19 AM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim/Steve View Post
Screamers have S5 flaming hits for flying over a unit, can march 20" a turn and still aren't considered that good.

I don't think I'll ever see this unit if they are as bad as I think they are: sure they would annoy me with the type of armies I run... but the vast majority of people out there would just laugh at them and either ignore them or just magic them to pieces.
True that. I play Plague Skaven and you are more than welcome to kill 4 or even 5 men of a 60 man unit. The rest really won't care. Then I shall either sic some Censer Bearers, get my Plagueclaws to shoot magical goop on you, fry you with magical cannon attacks or just magically toughness test you to death. Any solution is fine for me.
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  #13 Old 01-21-12, 03:49 AM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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OK i was talking to my fellow gamers here we all agree that their are armies that you dont try this trick with mainly any horde army it would be pointless but a elite high point army it could work out.(I.E warriors of chaos, High Elves, Wood Elves) things with expensive units.
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  #14 Old 01-21-12, 09:54 AM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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You have to remember that 90% of the people on heresy will not vary their armies depending on who/what they are playing against... so a unit that doesn't work against certain armies is considered fairly rubbish.

As for WoC, HE and WE... those are 3 of the best 4 armies for dealing with ethereal units:
WoC- almost alway have a lv4 tzeentch powerhouse with offensive magic galore.
HE- similar to WoC in that they'll almost always have a nasty Lv4 archmage but will probably also have a unit with amulet of light... god help you if its on archers.
WE- all forest spirits have magical attacks and all characters can take sprites which are also magical. Personally I almost always take a hail of doom, which would make me smile if there is an ethereal unit on the table.

Ethereal units scare the hell out of me in general, but then I've played against them with my ogres far too often with nothing but 1-2 magic weapons, a 2D6 S2 magic missile and bugger all SCR... but if I've taken any other army they aren't much of a bugger. Equally I think empire and beastmen may be annoyed by them, but most others can deal with them... and if you can hurt them the low T, no save and expensive cost really can help turn the game.
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  #15 Old 01-21-12, 01:36 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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*sigh* VC finally get thrown a bone after 8th ed stuffed us down the toilet, and people are making threads discussing their broken-edness...

As Tim/Steve explained, this is just the whole "zomg new army it's so broke" thing and not "having played the army many times, using different armies and scenarios, I can firmly conclude X is under-costed". Screamers have a similar effect and they can fly, but is anybody making threads about that? No? Why not? Because the book isn't new, perhaps?

I'm wasting my breath, though; once people actually get a game in they will realise that Phil Kelly knows what he's on about.
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  #16 Old 01-21-12, 02:51 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Darvaleth View Post
*sigh* VC finally get thrown a bone after 8th ed stuffed us down the toilet, and people are making threads discussing their broken-edness...

As Tim/Steve explained, this is just the whole "zomg new army it's so broke" thing and not "having played the army many times, using different armies and scenarios, I can firmly conclude X is under-costed". Screamers have a similar effect and they can fly, but is anybody making threads about that? No? Why not? Because the book isn't new, perhaps?

I'm wasting my breath, though; once people actually get a game in they will realise that Phil Kelly knows what he's on about.
+1,000,000 this!

People need to stop and remember that the name on our book is the same name that's on WoC, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, SW's. I think out of all those books, the only big complaints are the continuous and age-old SW's hate-on, venom spam, and 8th ed itself making chosen utterly insane!

The 'ethereal cheese' everyone is blathering on about will come from hyper-competitive types abusing 3x 1 spirit host bases as cheap deployment drops and monster/small elite unit sans magic attacks tarpits.
And even these aren't all that nasty - just take a Lore of Fire or better yet, a Lore of Light wizard when its an option and those ethereals will go poof!



Tim/Steven: It sounds like your ogres could do with a firebelly and/or converting those new crypt horrors/vaghiests into yetees for added magical attack sources!
Apparently VC's are broken because of all our ethereals...;)
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  #17 Old 01-21-12, 04:54 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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OK guys/gals I dont know which you guys are I am not saying broken as in they are OP thats not fair being a newish player I am saying its broken to my thinking because I see this as awesome not throwing in the towel saying they are not fair. Overall the new VC book is balanced and a good army.

The armies I have read/played against WOC HE WE Orc's thats it so my field of view on the game is limited but the new models add new tricks to the VC we didnt have before and it has "broken" the traditional sine of how I would want to run VC. Maybe I screwed up when I posted the title like I did because it was not my intent to make them sound OP because in fact their not.
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  #18 Old 01-21-12, 07:50 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
Tim/Steven: It sounds like your ogres could do with a firebelly and/or converting those new crypt horrors/vaghiests into yetees for added magical attack sources!
Apparently VC's are broken because of all our ethereals...;)
It sounds like you've had about as long a look at the ogre book as you have had at my name.
Forcing ogres into being able to oppose ethereal units seriously compromises them against all other enemies... I'm prepared to struggle through a few games against VC rather then struggle through every other game.


I don't think ethereal units are very good: many armies out there can just mush them without trying so I don't think they are worth taking in any great numbers. I even enjoy fighting against an army with a handful of ethereal models with armies that can't just crush them... where I get annoyed is facing armies that I consider to be pretty badly designed but with an army that just can't do anything about it.
Then again I've had bad experiences: worst was when I had agreed to a game against a new bloke at our FLGS (I'm just about the friendliest gamer there and am willing to game anyone who walks int he door) but upon hearing that I'm using ogres he whips out a massively ethereal list. I just deployed, ran straight at him and suicided my army- game was over in 10 mins. Oddly he couldn't find anyone else willing to play him and he stopped coming down altogether shortly afterwards.
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  #19 Old 01-23-12, 03:09 PM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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That sucks see me I wouldnt do something like that I hate building lists that are only good if you fight this or that army. I believe that it is a whole lot more exciting to try and build a all comers list and get surpised by what your opponent brings to the table.


Now for a ethereal unit I would bring one as a harassment unit hitting your important units or warmachines, then going after your general (because in my think) their by stopping your toughest unit for a turn maybe two.

I have also thought of taking a etheral unit as a "bodyguard" unit for my general but I havent thought that through all the way yet.
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  #20 Old 02-01-12, 01:54 AM Hexwraiths more broken then first thought.
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ok on Hexwraiths,

l have had a few games with them and l find they do well vs most armies. (love the poor dwarf players who can not do much to stop them.)

l find its better to have them hide behind a unit to block LoS for the 1st few turns then move past your own guys to do the damage by the 3rd turn at the latest. They are also good flank guard for your main unit.

overall they are very good and have not let me down yet. However if you place them on the board and think they will kill everything and are broken, then your in for a world of pain.
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