New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard

 
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New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard

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  #1 Old 10-23-13, 02:20 AM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
akwing00
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Default New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard

Hi everyone I not so recently started playing chaos space marines and my main opponent is my friend who got me into the game and he plays Imperial guard. I havenít been winning too much other than good luck and was hoping to get some advice to better play against him next time we have a game. We usually play anywhere from 1500-2500 point games. Here is a list of units I have access to:

HQ-

Daemon Prince
Ahriman

Troops-

Chaos cultists (30x)
Chaos space marines (10x)

Elites-
Thousand Sons (10x)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Chaos Terminators (10x)
Chaos Decimator Daemon Engine (Not gonna lie, this was a total impulse buy, just couldnít resist)

Fast Attack-
Helldrake (2x)
Chaos Bikers (3x)

Heavy-
Forgefiend
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider
Havoc Squad (5x)

Fortress-
Aegis Defense Line

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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  #2 Old 10-23-13, 12:32 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
Iraqiel
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Hey Akwing, welcome to Heresy.

You have an interesting list of units there. Do you normally play rulebook missions or kill points?

I notice you don't have many scoring units unless you break down the cultists, which means you likely have trouble holding objectives against guard.

How have you outfitted your Havocs?

How do you normally run your Army list? And how does your friend run his?

WRT terminators, they can be devastating BUT will be overwhelmed by weight of fire from the Imperial Guard. I recommend making one or two units of 3-4 men with combi weapons to hunt specific targets. Against an infantry heavy army, combi-flamers. Against a tank heavy army, combi melta or plasma. Deepstrike them in, unleash the pain, and hopefully divert heaps of fire your way. If you don't, go rampaging.

The two Helldrakes should be serving you well, but ideally you'll achieve a knock out of the enemy Hydra or Quad Guns with the terminators before they come in.

I haven't played with a forgefiend or decimator.

Aegis line is good for Anti-Air and to throw your cultists into.

Chaos space marines tend to die quicker than I like, but definitely make acceptable mid-field objective holders.

Hope this gives you some ideas.
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  #3 Old 10-23-13, 04:01 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
akwing00
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Hi Iraqiel, thanks for the welcome and reply.

We are mostly playing for kill points and we are making the slow transition into objective based games, which I'll definitely accommodate to as we continue to play.

For my havoc squad, I usually outfit them with 2 lascanons and 2 autocanons.

For the army in general, I usually buff up my daemon prince with all the upgrades and have him fly around for vector strikes or magic until i can land him safely for an assault, which I have outfitted him with the black mace. I also try to get him to roll for iron arm on the biomancy table but still haven't been lucky enough lol. I always bring the 2 helldrakes, one with the baleflamer and the other with the hades autocanon. I also use most of the time the predator with 3 lascanons and the forgefiend with twin hades autocanons. Depending on how many points we use is where I fluctuate with how many models I put in my troop squads, but I always do bring in some cultists (for the aegis line), the space marines, and thousand sons usually grouped up with Ahriman. I have been using 2 squads of 5x terminators but I will definitely take your advice on them.

As for my friend, he loves his leman russ tanks, usually making them a vanquisher, and another one that I can't recall the name but has a heavy 20 gun mounted. He has 3 of these tanks in any game with a knight commander pask. He also has 2 valkyrie's which he designates as vendettas. The only other noticeable things he had were his heavy weapon squads (3x) and commissar yarrick. He usually then just uses his remaining points for lots of shock troops.

Hope this is enough info, and thanks!
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  #4 Old 10-24-13, 10:02 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
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Hey Awking welcome to the club. It's a fun bunch of guys who really will give good advice when needed.

Anyway on to your topic; this should be a no-brainier. As with all Marines (Choas or Not) you have the 3+ armor saves that will give you the edge over the Imperial Guard anyday of the week. Especially if you take Khornate Bezerkers and other "Close Combat" type units you will easily rip apart IG armies like clockwork.

However.....your freind probably knows this. As a IG player myself I can tell you there is a sort of "Kill Zone" where Guard players will keep you IOT make the most of their weapons. To counter this good vehicles or use of cover (For Cover Saves) will help you close the range.

DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT engage an IG play at range unless you have a lot of armor or Oblitorators. He will simply chew you to ribbons with plasma, heavy weapons, arty, and vehicles. Like the Tau the Guard excel at range, and with the "Command" option they can fire numerous time on select targets to wear them down/destroy them.

From reading your post it simply sounds like he is using his vehicles effectively. You have good troop choices but your vehicles are a wee bit weak. Try and engage his LR and Chim's with your vehicles/Daemonic Prince. Then use the Cultists as bullet sponges while your Marines move up in force. "Rapid Fire" with Bolters can be devastating at close range . Thats how I'd defeat my Army, but be careful for artillery he has.
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  #5 Old 10-25-13, 05:05 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
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next time you play a game write up your list and ask if you can have his; then post them up and tell us what YOUR thoughts are, and if we see anything glaring that you are not seeing we will mention it (usually).

blank check questions (akin to this one) usually do not have enough info in them for us to actually help you with what you need to know.
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  #6 Old 10-25-13, 08:31 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akwing00 View Post
Hi everyone I not so recently started playing chaos space marines and my main opponent is my friend who got me into the game and he plays Imperial guard. I haven’t been winning too much other than good luck and was hoping to get some advice to better play against him next time we have a game. We usually play anywhere from 1500-2500 point games. Here is a list of units I have access to:

HQ-

Daemon Prince
Ahriman

Troops-

Chaos cultists (30x)
Chaos space marines (10x)

Elites-
Thousand Sons (10x)
Aspiring Sorcerer
Chaos Terminators (10x)
Chaos Decimator Daemon Engine (Not gonna lie, this was a total impulse buy, just couldn’t resist)

Fast Attack-
Helldrake (2x)
Chaos Bikers (3x)

Heavy-
Forgefiend
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider
Havoc Squad (5x)

Fortress-
Aegis Defense Line

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
2000pts. I hope you like proxies:

Chaos Lord with Mark of Slaanesh, Lightning Claw and Bike (proxy Biker model)
Sorceror with Mastery Level 3, Mark of Slaanesh and Aura of Dark Glory (proxy Ahriman; rolls on Slaanesh/Telepathy)
Sorceror with Mastery Level 3, Mark of Slaanesh and Aura of Dark Glory (proxy Aspiring Sorceror; rolls on Slaanesh/Telepathy)

3 Terminators with Combi-Meltas (deep strike and nuke something big and expensive)

10 Cultists with Autopistols (stay in reserve and walk onto the board to avoid firepower in the early game and capture in the endgame)
10 Cultists with Autopistols (stay in reserve and walk onto the board to avoid firepower in the early game and capture in the endgame)
10 Cultists with Autopistols (spend their lives Gone to Ground behind the Aegis Line for objectives)
10 Noise Marines with 8 Sonic Blasters and 2 Blastmasters (proxy CSM - stand behind the Aegis Line and absolutely ruin the day of any infantry, cover or no)

Heldrake with Baleflamer (Vector Strike tanks, murder infantry - aim for Heavy Weapon Teams if possible)
Heldrake with Hades Autocannon (flies around to get rear armour shots - even Leman Russes are a lot less imposing when they're taking four Krak Missiles into their AV10 rear. Aim for Flyers first)

2 Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle
2 Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle
2 Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle (proxy Terminators - wander up the field or Deep Strike, your choice; use Assault Cannons and Twin-Linked Flamers to kill Guardsmen, and use the Lascannons and Multi-Meltas to nuke tanks)
Predator with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Lascannon sponsons (shoot the tanks, easy enough)

Aegis Defence Line with Quad-Gun (hide Cultists and Noise Marines here).

Midnight
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Last edited by MidnightSun; 10-25-13 at 08:36 PM.
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  #7 Old 10-25-13, 11:59 PM New Player, Chaos Space Marines, need help vs Imperial Guard
akwing00
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hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome.

Just gonna give a bit more info on my friend's army and my own. I have done a few changes as well to my own army but this was before I saw any of your guys posts so just saying haha. We aren't having another game for a few weeks as we are both in exam season at school so that does give me time to get anything i don't have and prepare. From what I can remember this is what he has off the top of my head.

Imperial Guard List:
x1 Commissar Yarrick w/ power fist
x1 Company Command Squad w/ standard, sniper, medic, vox caster
x1 Infantry squad w/ Veteran guardsmen, 2 grenade launchers, 1 flamer
x1 Storm Trooper Squad w/ troopers, 1 sgt, 1 flamer
x1 Heavy Weapons Squad w/ x3 lascannons
x2 Leman Russ Tanks 1 w/ Vanquisher BC, another w/ Punisher GC (and he has just gotten his third leman russ)
x2 Vendetta
x1 Basilisk
x1 aegis defense line which he just purchased.

Sometimes he has a mutual friend who has a small army of dark angels to ally with him to match me in points in some larger games (and to let our friend participate)

This is what he has for sure:

x1 Azriel w/ combi-weapon, power sword
x1 Terminators Squad w/ 5 terminators in it (mainly geared for CC)
x1Terminator Chapions squads w/ 5 terminators in it (all geard for CC)
x1 Tactical Marine Squad w/ 9 marines, 1 sgt, 1 plasma cannon, 1 plasma rifle
x1 Raven Wing biker squad w/ 3 bikers


Here is my updated army, but I still have access to all the units in my first post.

HQ

Chaos sorcerer with disc of tzeentch
KHORNE LORD ON JUGGERNAUT WITH AXE OF BLIND FURY
which replaced the daemon prince which most people suggested I remove

Troops (which ill figure out how many I need moving forward, but this is how many I have currently)

chaos cultists (30x)
chaos space marines (20x)

and not sure if i should add khorne berzerkers since they are a troop choice now

Elite

3 units of 3 chaos terminators for deepstriking and melta weapons


Fast attack

x2 helldrakes with baleflamers
x3 chaos bikers (with meltaguns)

Heavy

forgefiend
chaos predator (3x lascannons)
havoc squad (2x lascannons, 2x autocannons)

aegis defense line

We usually play with 2000 or more points so we let each other have access to a secondary primary detachment. Which is nice because I like the idea of obliterators now.

I'm still working on all the little details and weapons but i think this is an improvement. And I will try to get more info on what exactly he is running, it just has been difficult to find extra time these past few days and will be for a week or so. In any case it will be a while before our next game, so let me know what you guys think, and if you need more info I'll let you know as soon as I can.


Thanks in advance!

edit

@MidnightSun

I definitley want to use the obliterators now for sure, never used them before but with MoN they sound pretty awesome. Also i never thought of keeping some of my troops in reserve till you mentioned it, and I actually think this will help quite a bit, as my friend does open fire with his artillery as soon as possible.

Last edited by akwing00; 10-26-13 at 12:39 AM.
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