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Eldar confirmed next week

18K views 169 replies 36 participants last post by  Bindi Baji 
#1 ·
#34 · (Edited)


Are they fucking serious.
27 pts, troop, obsec, eldar jetbike, 3+ save, 3+ jink. 4 Str6 shots each.
 
#39 · (Edited)
So there's a video review of the new White Dwarf out. Sadly, I can't find it on FB now that I've read it. But here's what I remember. And I'll say I'm bias'd to Saim Hann, so I paid most attention there.

You already know that every bike can take a Scatter Laser or Shuricannon. Scatter Laser has lost laser lock, but otherwise everything is the same. Points, etc. You can theoretically have 11 bikes in a squad, since the Warlock is not upgrading one.

The new 'Decurion' is called a Warhost. There are three options for Core. One is infantry based, using Guardians. Another one (I think) let you go with Spirit Seers and Wraiths. The final one is a Windrider Host, requiring one Farseer, one 'Warlock Coven', up to 3 Windrider Squads, and 1 Vyper Squadron.

Vypers are the new Tomb Blades. Every Core formation had one squad of Vypers.

For every Core Formation you could take up to 3 HQ Formations. One gave you access to Autarchs OR Phoenix Lords (meaning up to 3 PLs or 3 Autarchs per Core, or any combo), or a Farseer Conclave, which was 1 Farseer and some Warlocks, OR some of the special characters that didn't fit in the other two slots.

Finally, Aux Formations. One of them was 1 unit of Rangers. Another was THREE Crimson Hunters. There was one with Spirit Seers and Wraiths. Another with 0-1 of two types of tanks. EDIT: This is also where you got your Aspect Warriors, in 1-3 squad groups.

They have not mentioned the benefits of the Warhost, or the Formations.

Other things to note: The Wraithknight is now a Gargantuan Creature, and his Cannons and Glaive are Destroyer Weapons for him. They also infer Initiative 1, because the new Bloodthirsters went before him.
 
#42 ·
Well done Gents, that's a whopping four pages into an Eldar thread before someone says game-breaking,
that's got to be a record....................
 
#47 ·
Thanks :) I really don't know how to say that differently. It seems that the codex that needs the more rule-pushing-purchase is the eldar codex...

Am I missing something? Are we sure windriders have 3+ and a 3+ jink?
sorry, 4+ cover, 3+ armour,
 
#45 ·
Bless you..... :p
 
#48 · (Edited)
The new Eldar 'Warhost' (Decurion)

To start, you must take between 1-3 'Guardian Hosts' (one of these 3):

Guardian Battlehost:
1 Farseer, 3 Guardian Defender Squads, 1 Vyper Squad, 1 War Walker Squad, 1 Vaul's Wrath Support battery, 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Windrider Host:
1 Farseer, 1 Warlock Conclave, 3 Windrider Squads, 1 Vyper Squadron

Guardian Stormhost:
1 Farseer, 3 Storm Guardian Squads, 1 Vyper Squadron, 1 War Walker squadron, 1 Vaul's Wrath Support battery, 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Then, for every 'Guardian Host' you take, you can have 0-3 of the Command Formations:

Heroes of the Craftworld:
1 Autarch, or Eldred, or Prince Yriel, or Illic Nightspear

Seers Council:
2 Farseers (1 may be replaced with Eldrad) AND 1 Warlock's Conclave

Living Legends:
1 Avatar, or one of the Phoenix Lords

For each 'Guardian Host' you take, you can also add 1-12 Auxillary Formations:

Outcasts:
1 Ranger squad

Crimson Death:
3 Crimson Hunters

Aspect Host:
3 Units in any combination of Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears, Warp Spiders or Dark Reapers

Dire Avenger Shrine:
3 Units of Dire Avengers

Wraith-Constructs:
1 Hemlock, Wraithlord or Wraithknight

Wraith Host:
1 Spiritseer, 3 Wraithguard/Wraithblades (mix and match), 1 Wraithlord, 1 Wraithknight

Engines of Vaul:
1 Nightspinner, Fire Prism or Falcon



All of the above is directly from the WD. Also, the benefit for running a 'Craftworld Warhost' is something called 'Matchless Agility'. Described in the WD as 'they are able to move faster and more surely than ever before'.

Now, my ASSUMPTION is that 'Wraith Host', 'Crimson Death', 'Aspect Host', and all of the Core/Command formations will also get their own bonus, to make you want to play, for instance, 3 Crimson Hunters (since you can't play less outside of another Detachment.
 
#52 ·
Yeah, and you kill 10 roughly (370 pts,) assuming you happen to start first and your drakes are already on the board and can draw a line of sight to the bikes...things that are not going to always be true. Then the other 20 jump in and take down you lord with baleflamer and one of your drakes with sheer volume of shots. Discounting any psychic buff, of course. Really venomlust, you can't beat that point for point. really. 6 units of 5 scatterlaser jetbikers: 1110 pts. 120 str6 shots a turn, on a jetbike. seriously. heldrakes are the only thing we have left on the board by turn 3.
 
#55 · (Edited)
Then you end up losing anyway to the guy who brought land raiders :grin:
For about the same points you could bring 2 baledrakes and 6 x 5 man nm squads with blastmasters.
Then its just a game of who rolls to go first...
I agree with Venomlust - I'll probably never face this. And being the only Eldar player I know I'm not going to do this to anyone.
And if someone insists, take 3 raiders and fill the rest of the points with baledrakes. Unbound ftw lol
 
#56 ·
Then you end up losing anyway to the guy who brought land raiders :grin:
For about the same points you could bring 2 baledrakes and 6 x 5 man nm squads with blastmasters.
Then its just a game of who rolls to go first...
not really. jetbikes can sit 49" from you or behind LOS blocking stuff or better still, in reserve and still be able to punish you when it comes to them. they are just so fast. About the landraider...ok, hide in there. how many can you bring at 1500 pts? who's going to win in maelstrom missions? :biggrin:
I know there are some counters to that spam. But it's not like the eldar list ends with jetbikes.
I am just amused on how the writer could end up with that. a funny unbound list could be eldar jetbikes supported by necron wraits and chaos heldrakes...i think im making this one when full rules are out...
 
#58 ·
Another point on the "bring several Baledrakes" thing--I imagine your opponent might well take the "3 Crimson Hunter" detachment, and hold those in reserve to come on once your Heldrakes have come on, then run a shooting gallery where they Vector Dancer your helpless Drakes out of the sky with massed Lances. They might as well dominate the sky as well as the movement phase on the ground, you know (as well as movement during the shooting phase on the ground and movement during the assault phase on the ground *throws confetti* ah, just Eldar things).
 
#60 ·
Agreed. ther's also a rumour talking about Swooping Hawgs being able to assault flyers. so say hello to the heldrake!
 
#61 ·
Its lucky that most people have Eldar in my gaming group ...... oh no wait, I mean its lucky I don't mind packing my army away by turn 3 when I play in my gaming group :grin:
 
#62 ·
I love the fact everyone is scared to even face the new eldar army despite not seeing the codex , its really how it should be , reminds of the old days were we would roll a d6 to see who won the game roll 1-5 the eldar side win on a roll of a 6 the eldars opponent forfeits the game ;)



 
#63 ·
Now I get what your saying is a bit tongue in cheek, but I do remember Eldar being a potent army in the hands of a good player. But if what I have read so far is true you don't really need the good player part of that statement. You just need the right build and 'hey ho away we go!'

That being said I am not 'scared' to face Eldar, I am just prepared to have short games against them, especially with my mono nurgle deamons :puke:
 
#69 · (Edited)
I believe the 25th was release date?

EDIT: Yep. Everything's currently available.

Interesting to note: Shining Spears are still a plastic + resin kit, and Autarchs are the same. However the Autarch's cost is the same as the Farseer, while Shining Spears are not. This will certainly discourage me from adding them to my Saim Hann list.
 
#70 ·
Somebody has their hands on the codex, according to BoLS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/boom-eldar-rules-tidalwave.html

We have confirmation.

Wraithknights cost 295 (can switch the ranged D-weapons for a melee D-weapon+shield for free), Wraithguard cost the same, and D-Scythes get -1 on rolls to the Destroyer Table. Wave Serpents cost 110 points, but the Serpent Shield is 24" 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover, One Use Only (plus no laser lock on scatter lasers, anymore).

Some other interesting stuff. Swooping Hawks can Haywire flyers they move over (sorry @neferhet--not quite "assaulting"). Banshees ignore I penalty assaulting into cover.

All in all looks like some much needed buffs and nerfs, and it looks pretty fun and balanced... aside from the massed, massive Wraith-D looming over the battlefield alongside jetbikes jetbikes jetbikes spitting out 40 S6 shots with a threat range of 36" per turn for 270 points.
 
#72 ·
Wraithknights cost 295 (can switch the ranged D-weapons for a melee D-weapon+shield for free)
Expensive as fuck for two non-TL, non-blast, non-Ignores Cover Destroyer shots at BS4. Better be a damn good melee unit.

Wraithguard cost the same, and D-Scythes get -1 on rolls to the Destroyer Table.
Huh, so they only wound on 3s and can't get Deathblow? That's... actually pretty entirely reasonable, sure.

Wave Serpents cost 110 points, but the Serpent Shield is 24" 2D6 S6 Ignores Cover, One Use Only (plus no laser lock on scatter lasers, anymore).
Fuuuuuuck yeeeeeees.

Some other interesting stuff. Swooping Hawks can Haywire flyers they move over (sorry @neferhet--not quite "assaulting"). Banshees ignore I penalty assaulting into cover.
Great, matching abilities to fluff. Better late than never!

All in all looks like some much needed buffs and nerfs, and it looks pretty fun and balanced... aside from the massed, massive Wraith-D looming over the battlefield alongside jetbikes jetbikes jetbikes spitting out 40 S6 shots with a threat range of 36" per turn for 270 points.
I'm really liking the look of it. Sure, Jetbikes can fire a load of shots, but since there won't be a bajillion Str7 Ignores Cover shots coming in from AV12 4+/3+ cover fast skimmers, that's not something new that Eldar can do and not Ignoring Cover is a huge deal.

I'll take Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers across the table than Serpents any day.
 
#71 ·
This has got to be the biggest pile of feces they came up with yet.

those jetbikes and the very spammable wraithknight (12 per decurion style detachment it was?) can break the game, especially if they can be taken as individual detachments (like canoptyk harvest?)

Guess it's just packing up your stuff and moving on to the next game if you see certain eldar armies coming. Sad times, they were doing so well with balance right up untill the last 2 books, I actually had hope for a balanced edition.
 
#73 · (Edited)
@neferhet

Looks like you won:grin: - hawks moving 18" and getting to haywire a flyer is more than I ever thought they'd get so you were easily more accurate than I was. But now I get to pull my hawks out of retirement :)
And now I need to go buy another squad of guardians and dire avengers. Da with a bs of 5 for a turn or three shots each once per game - I might actually beat a tactical squad with that :)
I actually think I can go back to using aspect warriors again.
Scorpions getting stealth and shrouded until they fight is interesting especially if the aspect formation gives them ws5


And Neferhet do your worst :grin:
 
#81 ·
@neferhet

Looks like you won:grin: - hawks moving 18" and getting to haywire a flyer is more than I ever thought they'd get so you were easily more accurate than I was. But now I get to pull my hawks out of retirement :)
And now I need to go buy another squad of guardians and dire avengers. Da with a bs of 5 for a turn and three shots each once per game - I might actually beat a tactical squad with that :)
I actually think I can go back to using aspect warriors again.
Scorpions getting stealth and shrouded until they fight is interesting especially if the aspect formation gives them ws5


And Neferhet do your worst :grin:
Well, actually i didn't won. Our bet was on the "Assault", so actually we both lost. However, this is the FIRST ever direct interaction between a non flyer and a zooming model...

I couldn't really be ok with my soul to decide your avatar...unless you want to use this pic


:laugh:
 
#83 ·
I'm not saying the sky is falling. It's just going to be very, very... hard to play Eldar players who field substantial amounts of Wraith. People already talk about refusing to play lists made up of 3+ Knights; 3+ Wraithknight Eldar might just get the same treatment from a sizeable minority player base.


Well, actually i didn't won. Our bet was on the "Assault", so actually we both lost. However, this is the FIRST ever direct interaction between a non flyer and a zooming model...
A compromise: both of you pick avatars for each other!
 
#94 ·
@neferhet
This? Its either that or we both end up being too polite to win :grin:

Can anyone explain from the rumours how monofilament is going to work?
I read it but I kept going crosseyed...
agreed:grin: i'm good with both solutions!
 
#85 ·
The power creep is pretty intense, yeah. Necrons are unkillable with guns that can kill anything, the Eldar can get anywhere in no time flat and kill anything... etc. I'd cede your point about Daemonkin... if my "free" Bloodthirsters didn't a) cost half my army being dead, first and b) take two turns after DSing in swooping to be able to do anything.

What my emotions are basically boiling down to: sorry Eldar players, you still have the best units in the game controlling every single phase of the game, so people are still going to give you shit when you unpack your army and put it on the table. The bitching and moaning every time you bring your army is still going to continue, because getting tabled causes bitching and moaning.
 
#87 ·
The only two things I am annoyed at are Dscythes and the pricing of the Wraithknight.

Dscythes, even with their -1 on the D table, will still obliterate any tank/MC effortlessly. Sure, the wraithcannons can do that to, but at least you have to roll to hit with them...

And the Wraithknight? It makes the Tesseract Vault, Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights look like a fucking joke. At I5, the Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights won't even get a chance to swing before being taken apart (assuming the sword is being used). And I realize the the point of the Vault is different from the others, as they are CC machines, but its still nearly double the points of a WK for something that fires a random attack, that might not even be what you need.
 
#89 ·
And the Wraithknight? It makes the Tesseract Vault, Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights look like a fucking joke. At I5, the Lord of Skulls and Imp. Knights won't even get a chance to swing before being taken apart (assuming the sword is being used). And I realize the the point of the Vault is different from the others, as they are CC machines, but its still nearly double the points of a WK for something that fires a random attack, that might not even be what you need.
Well, the Tesseract is a pretty crappy super-heavy anyway so makes for an unfair comparison, and the Lord of Skulls is almost always going to have Invisibility and/or Shrouding from Be'lakor (who always goes with it) or the Grimoire for a 3++. As for Imperial Knights, yeah, I'd agree that the Wraithknight is probably better.

300pts for a Wraithknight and everyone says Eldar are overpowered, but look at some of the Lord of War options for other factions; Orks pay 500pts for an AV13/13/12 12HP Super-Heavy Walker with a pair of 7" Blast Destroyer shots that you can pack full of cheap Meks and give it an Invulnerable to make it preposterous to kill. Imperials can get a Knight-Acheron, which I'll take over a Wraithknight - 415pts for a Knight with a Str7 AP3 Hellstorm template and an extra attack? 380pts for a Knight with an 8-shot Str7 AP3 TL gun and hitting everyone in base to base with Str10 AP2 Deflagrate? Sure, these things are all Lord of War so you can only bring one per detachment, but who cares? It's not hard to get an extra HQ and 2 troops.

Bring three Wraithknights for 900pts and I'll bring Aetaos'rau'keres for 999pts and it'll become evident that being able to bring a silly giant monster in this game isn't something new that Eldar can do that makes Eldar overpowered.
 
#96 ·
what an utterly preposterous thing to say,
you must now make a snap judgement on why the game is now broken and which competitor you will be leaving for...........:grin:
 
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