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Games Workshop reseller changes

16K views 114 replies 42 participants last post by  Exitus Acta Probat 
#1 ·
Some interesting news cropped up on some of the other sites recently.

Bigbossogryn said:
Today I was talking with a close friend who is an independent stockist of GW goods and something very interesting was raised during our conversation. Apparently, GW have confirmed an initiative will go active sometime in June that has been two years in the making (mainly due to legal issues). This initiative involves the use of a tier system to rate indies and then adjust how much discount their trade account is liable for.

Sounds interesting so far, right?

There will be four tiers (one to four funnily enough) with one being the best and four being the worst in terms of trade discount and 'other' perks which I am not at liberty to discuss. Which tier an indie factors into will be determined by a point system with the maximum being twenty four (I'm guessing six points to a tier) and the indie will score points by basically being a mini GW store. By this I mean having GW product advertised clearly and having it on display, running gaming clubs and intro games to name a few.

By the sounds of it, 99% of dedicated online stores will be tier four, meaning that they will clear less on GW products unless they start selling a shed load more. Here's an example:

Space Marine Bike - £10 to us general public
Tier 4 store trade price - £7.77 excluding tax
Tier 1 store trade price - £5.77 excluding tax

So, is this GW finally plugging the hole that is online stores? Discuss
Our very own rich1231 also added later on:

rich1231 said:
Its not a rumour.

foolish to comment fully until we have the new trade terms documents and I have had them scrutinized.

I still fully believe this will lead to consolidation of online retailers. And that B&M retail is non viable in most areas of the UK and europe in this climate.
rich1231 being the owner of a large online webstore, so obviously in a good position to comment on this particular topic. To summarise the content of some of the rumours and threads (full largely of the usual drumbeating posts that go with these topics), apparently GW intends to offer a tiered discount system to resellers. The idea being that GW rewards those with a brick and mortar presence similar to GW hobby shops and 'penalises' (or 'unrewards' if you like) those resellers who are less like a GW hobby shop, i.e. online only resellers and small LGS's that stock limited GW product.

From my point of view this is comes across as a kick in the nuts for those of us that regard GW prices as too high and only remain in the hobby due to 20%+ discount internet sites. It could be that I have misjudged GWs aim, the proof in the trade documents remains to be seen, but it appears that GW are making an attempt to further control GW product resellers. 'If you have a 'hobby centre' and sell lots of GW product you get a nice discount, otherwise kindly get fucked'.

It would seem that this will really hurt the small independent shops and online stores that aren't just a facsimile of a GW hobby shop or don't have the required turnover to access a good tier. I am sure there will still be some discount shops, but a reduced market and more control over discounts and resellers by GW may (pessimistically perhaps) result in less discount for us, the playing and paying public.

If this proves to be the case, for me I suspect it will mean GWs bizarre approach to marketing in a recession will finally help me kick the habit, I mean hobby...
 
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#33 ·
also yes the overheads for an online store are much lower than a shop front. especially a games workshop which always seems to have huge staff numbers. but you have to remember as rich said the profits are considerably lower an online store now needs to offer an absolute minimum of 25% off just to compete and this really doesnt leave much in the profit bank and then after postage which has also become competitive you really are not making huge amounts of revenue.
plus GW is still making a profit from the stock sold to online traders so it's not like they lose out
 
#34 ·
GW loses money due to poor business planning.

All other companies in efficient industries use a just in time theory of production, to save costs (massively might I add) they only produce things as they need them, shit businesses have an inventory. GW tends to product models in massive batches and hoard them for a long time. (Why you can buy a model with 1998 printed on it...).

Finally, GW fails hard for customer relations, they claim their price rises are justified.

Character model 1994 cost what was it $7.95 in Australia, it's currently $22. Triple the price? They can't claim that costs have increased that much in all honesty. Can't be bothered calculating but I would wager that's about 10% a year or so or more. Inflation in Australia has been between 2-4% so a price rise in line with inflation is what all DECENT companies use with price rises. GW has more than tripled inflation in terms of price increases, that is not ethical business practices, in fact the best comparison of the company everyone loves to hate is microsoft which used similar price gouging techniques to gain enormous profits. Before you say BUT THAT'S OK, monopolies are considered bad in capitolism, so much so, that in the EU and Australia and even to a lesser degree in America, the government has laws against companies which dissuade competition, it's just that GW isn't big enough/mainstream enough for the government to care and force them to have more competition.

Ultimately, the biggest problem for GW, is that they've had no competition for most of their existence, even until now. As a result, they've failed to innovate, failed to improve processes and business practices. Not to mention that the actual cost of their production is shocking low.

Finally their culture how their stores are, who wants to be constantly pressured to buy more shit every time, the manager at the store near me won't speak to me anymore cause I refused to pre-order the new IG book when I have fucking tomb kings....

Don't feel bad for the failure of GW, their failure isn't because of prices or rising costs, the price increases they have aren't because they have to, but because instead of innovating and improving, they rest on their monopolistic position. If they want to become profitable in the long term, they need to seriously re-think their business model.
 
#35 ·
well, i think GW's gona shoot thenselfs in the foot here tbh, and could end up loseing a lot of gamers, mainly those on a budget. put it this way, im hopefully gona be placeing an order online soon for some bits, which online will cost £65, but if i go in to GW to buy em, it will cost £85, so im gona save 20 quid, which can be used for more models/paint, or as im buying em for me birthday, i got an extra 20quid to have a few beers on me birthday.
TBH, the only time i go in to my local GW is to buy any paints i need, and maybe (very rarely) the odd model that i need urgently. i dont game in there, becourse A; i go to my local club that has more room and bigger tables, and B my local GW is a small store with bugger all room in it and only small gameing tables.
@lordwaffles, so in your opinon, if a small FLGs is to small (i.e the store is only about 25' by 25', and with stock and shelfs in, theres no room for a table) to have a table in for gameing, even though they stock the models and games you want, you wont surport em? isnt that a bit elitest? but then i have notcied that an elitest attitude is apearing on many of the forums (not just here), that basicly if your a budget gamer, then you SHOULDNT play GW games unless your happy to spend X amount a week on the hobby.

this is just my opinion and is no way an attack or attempt to flame anyone.

(now sits back and waits to be flamed for dearing to be a budget gamer.................lol)
 
#36 ·
i have over 8000 points of empire and am actually considering sellig it all as it's getting far to cost restrictive to keep up with updates and new models etc, and if this actually goes through and i lose the online company i use (yes also a budget gamer only models i ever buy form GW is ones that are direct only) then i'll definately be looking elseware to spend my time
 
#37 ·
I got back into Warhammer last year after leaving at the start of 3ed. I came back looked on the GW site and saw as a student I would not be able to play this game. But takes to ebay stores and online stores I can play. So I think its a bit unfair to say that online stores bring nothing to the market.
I really hope this does not screw over Online stores. When I am at uni I only have the GW store I dont have any FLGS I dont think they are very common so if the online stores go I am not going to be able to carry on.


PS. Anybody know a good FLGS in london that stocks warhammer and lets you play (has players) ?
 
#38 ·
Assuming this rumour has any merit, i dont think it has anything to do with price, selling to indie traders is one of the most profitable ways for GW to make money.
If GW sell £10k of stock to an indie trader they have made their money and banked it but if they send the same £10k of stock to a GW store they have made nothing infact they are at a loss ,because they have paid to produce,pack and deliver it, not to mention the store costs such as wages and rent etc.
Then they have no guarantee that the GW stores stock will sell or in what time scale,so they again pay more rent and staff wages.
but the stock they sold to the indie trader they dont have to worry about the time it takes to sell because they have already made a profit.

It would make more sense to offer a higher rate of discount to sellers who sell more stock,that way the people who are really driving the hobby benefit,having a bricks and mortar store does not equate to sales, if it did GW would have a shop on every high street.A FLGS may give a place for people to play,but its prime reason for being is to sell you GW stock,without that they are always going to fail.



 
#40 ·
Damn, this is all one major f%cking bummer maaaannn!!!:mad:

I leave the game for two years only to come back in 2008 to have all this crap going on. Should've boughten them up all a long time ago. Though, there are a lot of good prices and deals and shops on Ebay which is were my brother bought all my LOTR minis for me.

~The Beltiac abides...
 
#49 ·
Hi all. I can confirm we recieved a letter stating the tiers of discount today. From what i can see most online sellers will have 30% discount and the top Gamesworkshop sellers (B&M who offer what GW offer) will get 45% discount.
The actual new terms and conditions will not be available untill monday the 18th of May so no one will really know the ins and outs till then. Cant say i am surprised by all this but i do think that this is a bad move from GW. Its the online sellers who make the most money for them. They make more money from us than selling in there own stores, so why they have done this i do not know. If there stores cant make money how do they expect someone else to do it for them?
 
#52 ·
At the moment, a Space Marine Tactical squad costs me 9.96 GBP BEFORE VAT

I've been told that I will receive 30% off the gross Manufactures Retail Price.

Now I'm not sure whether that 30% includes or excludes VAT, I've literally only just opened the letter.
 
#53 ·
It sounds like an interesting idea and I'm all for hurting the online stores a little to help out the local stores cause having a local store can EASILY cost a LOT of money. I mean think about spending $1000-5000 a month on rent then you gotta have staff and you have to buy a sign and shelves and a cash register and all that adds up very quickly.

I'd prefer to buy online for the biggest discount I can get since I build a lot of tanks and literally $5 off on each would have saved me a good $500 in the last 4 years but I don't wanna see the independent game stores go away. I had one out here that was like 1/3rd as far from me as the closest GW and even though I didn't go there much since I was like 14 when it was open I still kinda miss it. I never knew the owner to well but he was really nice. Nicer that all but maybe 4 staff members at my Local GW and in the 12 years I have been going there there have probably been at least 50 different redshirts.

Here is what I'm thinking. Why don't we encourage some online stores to work together with brick and mortar stores? If they combined and had a local shop they would get the discount and have a place for people to hang out and such then they would have the online store to hit a wider customer base. It could get complicated but if people do it right it means the best of both worlds for them and us though I guess it still pinches GW some but who of us doesn't like that idea?
 
#54 ·
No matter what the discount differentials, B&M stores in this day and age are generally non viable because for the most part the business models in place are 20 years out of date.

Also, the discount isn't working in the way you describe.

If we opened our storefront tomorrow, there is no way on this earth that any but the smallest proportion of our sales would come from on site custom. GW would know that and decide we were an on line store, and quite rightly.

An on line retailer opening retail space doesn't provide the solution in this case.
 
#55 ·
It'll be interesting to see how many games stores go with expanding to meet GW criteria for lower prices (some simply will not be able too) and how many decide it's simply easier to leave seeling GW products to GW stores (and GW online) and simply bolster their ranges of other alternatives.

I'd happily support my local independent wargames store but "Games Unlimited" went many a year ago and it's probably just as easy for me to get to Orcs Nest as anywhere else (or do my shopping once a year at Salute!). For non-GW products (an arena which is attracting an increase percentage of my gaming interest) online shopping is my only option really.

Unless someone can recommend good games store that's easily accessible from the Kingston Upon Thames area
 
#57 · (Edited)
This is simply just an attempt by GW to close on line retailers,its got nothing to do with supporting B&M indie stores so dont be hood winked into the corporate bollocks they will spout,GW will only allow supply to a B&M store if they are not interested in the location you want to open one in,trust me i know this from expereince ,GW are more interested in getting its product into large chains like hobbycraft and toy world and then possibly super markets but the large chains wont entertain them when they will have to compete with cheap on line stores,the increase of 15% on the trade price plus VAt will mean that online traders will not be able to offer any discount and without that edge alot will fold.
Its basicly a ballsy move by GW who will be hoping to shift sales from the cheap online sales market back to them or force the online seller to use RRP.

either way its gonna upset alot of people,firstly the sellers and more importantly the customers because at the end of the day your gonna be paying alot more from now on regardless of if you shop online or in a B&M.



 
#58 ·
i think some people did not read the original post fully.

a shop, be it online or local store, is place on a tier dependant on multiple issues.

1) promotion. do they have the posters and other promotional media that GW sends them displayed?

2) sales. are they selling a consistant amount of product? are they ordering regularly from the wholesalers?

i think quite a lot of shops and online businesses shouldnt be affected too much, unless they dont promote GW or sell so little that GW probably forget they exist until they get the rare call for more product, in which case, the small shop that orders that rarely should probably restructure or close.
 
#59 ·
This will probably be a death knell for games workshop in my area.
Where I live its rural and the only games workshop in norfolk is a tiny shop in Norwich which for me takes at least 90 minutes each way even longer if I rely on the local bus service which is patchy at best.
There are a few toy shops and a model shop in the surrounding towns but they sell Gw stuff as a secondary concern a few have recently stopped selling its stuff because the minimum order is so high and they end up with an excess of stock that no one buys so if they then have to put in even more effort to make a profit I can't see that many of them sticking with GW.
 
#60 ·
I cannot even guess the reasons behind the move from GW, but untill we see the new T's and C's tomorrow morning we have no idea how the tiers will be structured. At worst the online price for most sellers will only go up by a few pounds (if that) so its not all that bad really. If the 3rd tier is set on volume sales then it matters even less (depending on the level needed) At the end of the day, we will still be able to discount a lot of money off the rrp. I do see peoples points on the B+M stores and agree we need to support them as its a great palce to go and play the game, but i come from the perspective that at the cost of some of the models at full price. it seems stupid to me to pay that price if you dont have to.

The only thing that the online sellers like us have to worry about is weather they put in a clause to not allow shops to sell online with the full discount. If i was them i would not as it would be far better for them from a business point of view to sell to a B+M shop with high volumes of sales from online and an outlet for people to play the games and promote GW as thats what they
say they are after. If that is the case its game over for most of us!!!

We are planning to open a B+M shop soon so it will be interesting to see what hoops GW make us jump through to get the full discount.
 
#61 ·
! get my product from an online site at 20-30% off retail price then if I pay over 150$ CAD I then get free shipping.

I Understand what GW is attempting to do but if this is a problem for them why dont they just:

1. Pull back all stock from all stores that are not GW outlets. This would allow Gamesworkshop locations monopolize the market

2. Then make sure there are more GW locations available around the globe. To ensure that every city/town has a Local Bunker to sell the product as well as well as have a place to game.

3. Then drop prices to a price where there is obviously a profit but at the same time at a reasonable cost for all consumers.

This way GW reaps any and all profit, Local stores are not competing with the little clubs around towns tryig to undercut them to attempt to gather more sales, and now there is 1-2 bunkers that build up communities of games in each town. This would allow for better turn outs for tournaments because everyone is not scattered through the cities in their own little clubs.

I know this is a little far fetched but I could definitely see a drastic approach like this benefit GW and the gaming community as a whole. It just seems GW has not realized that the only way their company thrives is off us (the consumers) so by jacking up prices so that fewer items are purchased and a higher price really does not help them.

Chaosftw
 
#62 ·
Just to clarify...
GW cannot put in a clause to control the price you sell anything for.

And second opening a store and still selling the majority of your items via the web will still mean you are classed as an online retailer.

Do not open a store to gain B&M discount to trade online with would be my advice.

We have a shop area in our warehouse already and to turn to GW and suddenly claim 51% of our sales are now real people on site would be a non starter.

Bear in mind this is coinciding with general price increases, so I would expect significant price rises from most online retailers.

Most of our staff come from ex GW or a local game store and we know what their footfall is and a stockist mainly having GW items on sale, no matter what the margin, is not going lead to a full wallet. If you claimed £10k a week of sales from a B&M store on GW items as a figure i have pulled from my behind, firstly GW would question it, and secondly there would be a real GW store opening before you can change your window display.

No matter what GW think, long term real walk in trade for niche products is pretty much doomed and the Internet is the new king of the hill.
 
#64 ·
When i said about the clause in the contract, it was not with reference to how much you can sell items for, but a clause to prevent a hobby shop selling online at 45% discount. If it hits the tier to get the 45% discount in the first place they cannot then class it as an online store just because it sells online, they have all the criteria there for the full doscount so unless there is a clause to prevent them doing so, nothing stops them selling online. This i think would benefit GW as they would gain a lot of sales through trade while eliminating a lot of the compatition that cannot sell as low as a B+M store with full discount. That way they get the sales and the hobby is pushed through the local stores which as they keep saying is what they are after.

If they did do this i cannot fault them at all as it makes good business sense to me. But again no one knows what the levels of discount are at yet so who knows what is in the new terms but as ever i am sure it will be plastered all over the forums so we will all know the score!!!!
 
#66 ·
GW's Independent Retailer section is down meaning that I can't check the new Terms & Conditions.

We received the letter today which states that you can contact the Trade Department for a copy of the new Terms & Conditions. Sent an e-mail first thing this morning and I still don't have a reply.

We are looking at a 30% reduction opposed to our current 35% discount. As it stands prior to the alterations in June, we make around 10% after fees. That is primarily due to how competitive pricing is.

Currently online retailers are reducing their prices to such an extent they are not only hurting other businesses but also their own.

With this new system, we could be potentially faced with larger online shops getting a far higher discount than smaller online shops.

Should the standard 20-25% discounts still stand, smaller shops would not be able to cope and would ultimately have to shut down, something which we will have to strongly consider after reading the new Terms & Conditions.
 
#68 ·
exactly a good online store is just as good as a good b&m store and vice versa all down to the ownership, lets face it if your fav place to game is in a GW store you'll go there and more than likely pay full price for things. i find it hard to beleive that everyone would jump ship as soon as an indi opened up down the road.

indies are just another place to buy models from and for people on a budget it means they too can buy the same stuff, and anyway in a competitive world like this why should GW be kept on their toes? after all imagine the prices if you could only buy direct from GW!!!
£100 steam tank anyone?? :D
 
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