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  #11 Old 04-02-12, 12:20 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
that and I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the Adeptus Astartes included the support functionaries of the legions. You know, the cooks and mop pushers.
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  #12 Old 04-02-12, 12:22 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
What about in terms of a Space Marine thinking in first person? Do they they think, for example, 'humans wouldn't understand this or that, they are only human while we are Astartes', or would it be 'blah blah blah yadda yadda Space Marines', or 'ditto Chapter Name'?
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  #13 Old 04-02-12, 12:24 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Well, that is an entirely reasonable argument for not using "Astartes" to refer to individual marines. However, calling each marine a "space marine" all the time just seems like it would get irritating. It just seems like it would be too long.
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  #14 Old 04-02-12, 01:18 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Space Marine sounds way too generic and downright childish to say. If I'm talking to someone, and they ask me about 40k, and I say "Space Marines", they give me a funny look and immediately stop taking me seriously. But if I say "Adeptus Astartes" they actually become interested.
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  #15 Old 04-02-12, 01:33 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Originally Posted by Hachiko View Post
What about in terms of a Space Marine thinking in first person? Do they they think, for example, 'humans wouldn't understand this or that, they are only human while we are Astartes', or would it be 'blah blah blah yadda yadda Space Marines', or 'ditto Chapter Name'?
Same thing as above. "Astartes" just doesn't apply in that context anymore.

I'm not saying I prefer Space Marine. As the author guiltiest of using Astartes instead of Marine or Space Marine, it's obvious which I preferred. But the changeover is locked solid now.
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  #16 Old 04-02-12, 01:37 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Do you know (and are able to tell us) the reason for the change? I suppose i can understand it from a marketing point of view what with all the Space Marine stuff in the tabletop game labelled as "Space Marine". Though i would have also thought that going with a term that is solely/recognisably their own; "Astartes" (i don't know any other setting that uses that term) would be good to set them apart from every other setting that uses space marines (which is most sci fi).
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  #17 Old 04-02-12, 10:49 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Originally Posted by Rems View Post
Do you know (and are able to tell us) the reason for the change? I suppose i can understand it from a marketing point of view what with all the Space Marine stuff in the tabletop game labelled as "Space Marine". Though i would have also thought that going with a term that is solely/recognisably their own; "Astartes" (i don't know any other setting that uses that term) would be good to set them apart from every other setting that uses space marines (which is most sci fi).
I think that's part of the point. GW aren't trying to set themselves apart, they're trying to ensure if becomes a definitive, unified front. Such that when someone says 'space marine', you immediately think 'hulking, power armoured, genehanced warrior carrying the geneseed of the primarchs', not 'GW or that other setting?'

It's quite an aggressive stance to make, but also one which probably won't have verifiable/measurable results. A nice notion from the company's perspective.

There's also the undercurrent of 'Astartes' not being a word. That sounds like it's a big part of the motivation from the GW side too. "It is not correct to say 'Astartes', the phrase only makes sense when 'Adeptus Astartes' is said." Similarly, saying "Adeptus" on its own is probably a bit of an odd/over-general term. (Which has long bothered me with Ben's novel Dark Adeptus, should've been Dark Mechanicus .)

Anyway, the 'silliness' of Space Marine as a phrase is diminished with use and conviction. Space Wolf sounds silly. Space Marine just sounds a bit odd. It's not the worst word out there though.

"What's that?"
"The wooden thing in the living room?"
"Yeah."
"That's the fireplace."
"The what?"
"Fireplace. It's the place where the fire goes."
"Top-notch naming skills, there."

Personally, I'm much more vexed by the appellation of 'brother-' to things. 'Brother-sergeant', for example. It seems ham-fisted. Too close to 'Wolfclaw' and 'Bloodmissile'. Even keeping the feel & unity pursued by using 'Space Marine', I think authors and creative wits can be a bit cannier in their approach to semiotics, innuendo & themes.

(McNeill, Abnett & Wraight did very well in their "There's Something About Magnus" trilogy.)
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  #18 Old 04-02-12, 10:52 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
I'm not saying I prefer Space Marine.
But the changeover is locked solid now.
Didn't think so from your past work.

This is obviously a 'from above' mandate. I just wonder if this trickles down from the Board of Directors, which assumes (hopes) that the link of using "Space Marine" often enough in the print matter will translate to more folks going to the GW website and buying more figures, or someone in the managerial/operating capacity that collects author/customer feedback and makes the most intelligent logistical decision from there. I'm assuming the latter is not the case here.

I'll admit, as a fairly new BL reader, I knew at first (obviously) what Space Marines were, but the first time I heard Adeptus Astartes it threw me for a loop. But hey, we have that thing called the internet so I could figure it out right quick. Personally I like when the Marines refer to themselves as Astartes and regular people refer to them as Space Marines. But hey, the $100-200 I spend yearly on BL products ain't gonna carry my opinion too far.

Last edited by Hachiko; 04-02-12 at 12:27 PM.
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  #19 Old 04-02-12, 11:33 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
I've gotta say, I don't care that it is technically incorrect, you won't find me using the term "Space Marines" - cringeworthy in my opinion.

I'll stick to "Astartes". Of course though, that is just little ol' me.
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  #20 Old 04-02-12, 11:35 AM Move away from Space Marines
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Felt appropriate.
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