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Reply With Quote inqusitor magneto is offline
  #11 Old 03-30-12, 08:28 PM Need C&C on GK list
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hahahha, the terminator squad does not need extra points for weapons. they can get halberd/deamon hammer for free and they are scoring with the ability to deep strike.

300 pts for a GM uhmmm i am coming at 210 and thats with a halberd for one of the strongest single models in the book. GK are always mobile. they can ds with complete accuracy.

having up to three units re-roll their 1's to wound or outflanking is not needed. well that is your opinion but not a good GK commander. you are always outnumbered and being able to come at the enemy from all angle's is the trait not only of a space marine but, that is the sheer fluff of a Grey Knight.

do you know the board. objectives are not dead in the center. they are always close to the edge and far apart. The mere psychology of outflanking make your opponent change their whole tactical view. they dont know where you will come from but, why bother.

I just hope the OP understand they are running purifiers. they wants to go first with these squads in CC and they also want to have 2 pyscannons in each squad. Get rid of the falchions, stave & hammer. they also might want to have a SS and deep strike them with the GM near a skull.

You really don't need the raven. its a true point sink for 2500 pt games and has a 67% chance of being blown up in turn 1 or when it shows up.
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Reply With Quote DK1 is offline
  #12 Old 03-30-12, 09:37 PM Need C&C on GK list
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My experience is storm ravens are best is 3s with 3 dreads, not competitive but so funny when the enemy is overwhelmed. I have like 17 term models, might as well do a draigowing with a libby and dreadknight and just play to run there scoring units over.
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Reply With Quote Routine is offline
  #13 Old 03-30-12, 10:43 PM Need C&C on GK list
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Doesnt have to be 3 storm ravens, but you definitely need another one or two "shoot me first" targets on the board, otherwise the Stormraven often won't survive its first turn on the board against a decent player/army
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Reply With Quote paddlepop lion is offline
  #14 Old 04-01-12, 02:47 AM Need C&C on GK list
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Sethis there is so much wrong with the things you have just said its ridiculous.


Quote:
The 2A base and 2pt Halberds are decent reasons to take them.

Funnily enough, you don't actually have to assault out of a Storm Raven. Crazy, I know, but they work as Gunships as well.
Its 10 points for a second psycannon... 10 points that is stupidly cheap, not taking it on a unit that he has already shown he intends to shoot with is silly.
If he only wants 1 then he could save a billion points ruinning strike knights instead for the same shooting power and not much less combat power.

Its totally stupid to spend 200+ points on a Av 12 vehichle that has a real hard time getting cover and has 2 relivant weapons. i say again totally stupid.
The blood angel one at least has those good missiles that are good in any matchup but the GK one has 2 relivant guns.

Storm ravens are iffy even with combat units and you need to have a solid plan on how to use them. you cant just chuck it into an army and expect it to be good.

Quote:
- The ideal setup for Purifiers is 10 men with 4 Psycannons, a Hammer and enough Halberds/Master crafting as you can afford, with preference being given to the Halberds first, then MC the hammer.
This is ONE way of running purifiers. Purifiers are real good, they can shoot well and combat well but they can be dedicated to either just fine. Its hard to go past 2 points halberds even for a combat unit but things like the hammer are totally debatable and certainly the MCing of it.
You can also run them quite efficiently as a dedicated combat unit. I run 8 with halberds in a raider with a techmarine and they will smash just about anything on the charge which is exactly what i want them to do, thus making it also an ideal layout.

Quote:
No, I didn't forget it. I just don't think he is needed in this list. Scoring is not needed. Outflanking is not needed. Scout moves are nice, but not worth 300pts. Rerolling 1s isn't worth 300pts when you can buy another full squad instead.

5 Purifiers is not a combat unit, and adding a Grand Master to them simply makes them expensive and mediocre and 2 easy kill points.
I dont know where you got 300 pts from but the GM costs him 205 pts which is nowhere near that. Doesnt make your point invalid although i disagree but check your facts especially if your going to be such a grammar nazi. I read all his posts just fine.

Quote:
What Psycannons? He has 6 Psycannons in 6 units, and assuming Psychic communion works, he gets two squads, odds are good that one will come on the side you don't want it to.
Odds are? either you dont know what this saying means (making even more ridiculous that your being a grammar nazi) or you dont know your rules. Either way think before you talk mate, you have a 66% chance to come on the side you want. This may not be enough to trump an enemy on one side of the board but it is certainly enough to make them think about where they put thier things which can be a valuable effect worth in fact quite often using psychic communion to KEEP them in reserves to continue scaring your opponent. You can do this to give them more time to spread thier army more thinly which gives your outflanking unit a greater chance of making thier back lines un interrupted.

Quote:
The problem with Outflanking Psycannons is that they are a 24" range gun, which means the enemy has up to 48" in which to avoid you entirely. If you outflank onto his refused flank then you shoot 1-2 things and then get annihilated by his army focusing firepower on you.
Actually you seem to have forgotten a few things.
The first is that you have a movement phase where you move your models onto the table. This is not only compulsory for an outflank but grants your 24" range gun a 30" range. if you rode a razorback in then it gives you a 39" range (12"move+2"disembark+1"base+24"range) giving your opponent only 33" to hide in on the other side of the board.

The second is that you can come on either side of the board giving the opponent only a band in the middle of the board to be in where they are out of threat range.
With a 39" threat range and a 72" board they have a negative 6" area to be where they are out of range. Thats not very much, its actually nowhere on the board where they can avoid you entirely. Though i dont disagree that outflanking 5 marines in a razorback is not a particularly powerful play theres nothing wrong with it at all and you have absolutely no idea what your saying.
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Reply With Quote Sethis is offline
  #15 Old 04-01-12, 02:33 PM Need C&C on GK list
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Well before I reply, I do have to wonder if the Grey Knights section of the Forum is mostly populated by idiots who are completely unable to remain civil when debating with other people how best to construct lists? I know we get our share of trolls, but wow. I've been nothing but polite, and tried to give what I consider to be good advice, so sue me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
Its 10 points for a second psycannon... 10 points that is stupidly cheap, not taking it on a unit that he has already shown he intends to shoot with is silly.
If he only wants 1 then he could save a billion points ruinning strike knights instead for the same shooting power and not much less combat power.
The original question by you was "Why are you taking Purifiers without all the Psycannons?" To which I replied "because they are better than Strike Squads even without them". Which is exactly what you are saying here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
You can also run them quite efficiently as a dedicated combat unit. I run 8 with halberds in a raider with a techmarine and they will smash just about anything on the charge which is exactly what i want them to do, thus making it also an ideal layout.
So not content with trolling both me and the OP, you somehow slam my argument despite agreeing with it later in the same post. Um.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
Its totally stupid to spend 200+ points on a Av 12 vehichle that has a real hard time getting cover and has 2 relivant weapons. i say again totally stupid.
The blood angel one at least has those good missiles that are good in any matchup but the GK one has 2 relivant guns.
Hey, you know how Grey Knights have the most Psychic powers out of any army in the game? And how things like Rune Priests and Libbies in squads get to shut them down 50% of the time? Wouldn't it be great if you had weapons that could snipe the Libby or Priest right out of that Grey Hunter squad? Oh wait, you do. And they're defensive as well, so you can pop off all 4 in one go and still move. And Machine Spirit an anti-tank gun at something else. And still have a fast skimmer assault transport on top of that.

I can see how you think that such a capability is "totally stupid".

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
This is ONE way of running purifiers... You can also run them quite efficiently as a dedicated combat unit. I run 8 with halberds in a raider with a techmarine and they will smash just about anything on the charge which is exactly what i want them to do, thus making it also an ideal layout.
Purifiers are not a combat unit because they have 1 wound and no invulnerable. They might destroy one non-dedicated combat unit, and then get shot to hell. Purifiers are extremely good at shooting AND good in combat, but they are still generalists, because you're paying the points for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
I dont know where you got 300 pts from but the GM costs him 205 pts which is nowhere near that. Doesnt make your point invalid although i disagree but check your facts especially if your going to be such a grammar nazi. I read all his posts just fine.
Sorry, I don't get how "I don't understand what you are saying" somehow defines me as a grammar nazi. God forbid I ask someone to clarify their position. And ohmigod, I MADE A TYPO???!!! Quick, get the nails and CRUCIFY ME!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
you have a 66% chance to come on the side you want.
And therefore a 33% chance that it DOESN'T. If you reserve 3 units, do you want to do the math on the odds of at least one of them turning up in the wrong place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
This may not be enough to trump an enemy on one side of the board but it is certainly enough to make them think about where they put thier things which can be a valuable effect worth in fact quite often using psychic communion to KEEP them in reserves to continue scaring your opponent. You can do this to give them more time to spread thier army more thinly which gives your outflanking unit a greater chance of making thier back lines un interrupted.
If you want to play a 2000pt game with 1200pts or so on the table in order to conduct psychological warfare, be my guest. I'd rather have 30 more men to shoot with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
Actually you seem to have forgotten a few things.
The first is that you have a movement phase where you move your models onto the table. This is not only compulsory for an outflank but grants your 24" range gun a 30" range. if you rode a razorback in then it gives you a 39" range (12"move+2"disembark+1"base+24"range) giving your opponent only 33" to hide in on the other side of the board.
Which is why I UNDERLINED "up to". Yikes. I was hoping you'd have enough common sense to realise that I knew this. My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlepop lion View Post
The second is that you can come on either side of the board giving the opponent only a band in the middle of the board to be in where they are out of threat range.
With a 39" threat range and a 72" board they have a negative 6" area to be where they are out of range. Thats not very much, its actually nowhere on the board where they can avoid you entirely. Though i dont disagree that outflanking 5 marines in a razorback is not a particularly powerful play theres nothing wrong with it at all and you have absolutely no idea what your saying.
Did you even read my post? It isn't about "being out of their threat range" it's about refusing a flank, so when you outflank with your godly purifiers you have a choice between being completely out of range/sight or doing it right into the entirity of his army which is camped in a corner. At which point you get blown off the table.

Please remain civil if you want to debate further, it makes it more enjoyable for everyone.
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Reply With Quote DK1 is offline
  #16 Old 04-01-12, 09:29 PM Need C&C on GK list
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Ok so this is what i went with and in a small tourny (14 people) i took 1st, total of 47pts, second place was 44pts.

faced Chaos Space marines, Nids and another GK army.

Vs Chaos i chased tabling him, turn 3 he had nothing left on my side of the turn, then his side he failed all of his reserve rolls but 1. 1st turn i took the rhinos out to the middle of the table and set up shop, from there i pounded the crap out of everything he had, Assassin wiped out his land raider, and Psycannon took out a Predator. My fav part was the Inquisitor and 7 Purifiers wiped out Abadon and his terms (got a 2 on the Psychok nades)

Vs Nids it was obj with 5, spearhead deployment. i ran to the objs and started fireing, my DK took out 3 Carney with a force roll in one turn. i had a minor loss because the person i was playing took his sweet dam time and the game had to end on turn 3 and they wouldnt let us finish my side of turn 3, i could have easly pulled his unit off an obj and took a major victory.

Vs the GK Draigowing we had a crazy "death world" game. I did the same thing, took the middle of the board and pounded his terms, luckily it was the game made Drago worth dubble points, and i worked my butt off to kill that 10man squad and him, he made the mistake of getting within range, and i charged him with a DK, Techmarine with nades, 12 purifiers and Crowe. in Short nothing survived on his end, and i rolled 5 on the psychok.

In all i would take more Psycannons and 4 10man teams if i had the models and not the dreadknight. But this was what i owned in the models.

HQ
*Crowe

*Inquisitor
-Psychoke, Rad
-Plasma Syphon
-Psyker w/force sword
-3x Servo Skulls

Elite
*Vindicare

*Techmarine
-Psychoke, Rad

*Paladin
-x2

Troop
*Purifiers
11x Halberds
3x Falchions
3x Hammers
3x Ward Staffs
5x Psycannons
-4x w/Rhino


Fast
None

Heavy
*Dreadnought
-2x TL Autocannons
-Psybolt ammo

*DreadKnight
-Teleport
-H/Incinerator
-H/Psycannon
-Great Sword

Total= 2,000pts

Last edited by DK1; 04-01-12 at 09:35 PM.
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Reply With Quote paddlepop lion is offline
  #17 Old 04-02-12, 12:06 AM Need C&C on GK list
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I felt you came off as kinda rude hence the slamming, maybe you should also look at how you post in the future as well.

I stand by all my points i think you were quite wrong on all the things i pointed out. I cant be stuffed responding to all your responses but you havent redeemed yourself with your responses in my eyes.
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Reply With Quote Magpie_Oz is offline
  #18 Old 04-02-12, 12:24 AM Need C&C on GK list
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Settle down you guys, you all are serving up some useful information and I see that Sethis has remained pretty calm in the face of some pretty glib responses to his quite valid comments.

@DK1 How useful were the Servo Skulls in the tourny?

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 04-02-12 at 12:32 AM.
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Reply With Quote paddlepop lion is offline
  #19 Old 04-02-12, 01:32 AM Need C&C on GK list
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Everyone is entitled to thier opinion obviously but half of his comments were based on incorrect information so those are not valid.

Whats with the 2 paladins how are they fitted and what is thier job?

and are the purifiers in the same configuration?
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Reply With Quote DK1 is offline
  #20 Old 04-02-12, 01:33 AM Need C&C on GK list
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
Settle down you guys, you all are serving up some useful information and I see that Sethis has remained pretty calm in the face of some pretty glib responses to his quite valid comments.

@DK1 How useful were the Servo Skulls in the tourny?
Very, its stopped the Chaos from setting up anywhere but there deployment zone, and with the nids it provided some very close DK H/Psycannon fire to my front lines (like one inch away placement) and due to BS being 4 i rolled a 4 on 1d6 and hit dead on. Did nothing for the GK match because both of us were scared to DS due to the mission saying "due to being on a hostel battle field any DS will fail DS due to burning skis on any 6 for scatter" we both said the hell with that.
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