Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End

 
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  #1 Old 10-13-10, 05:19 AM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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Chaos Space Marine Tactica

All right well after seeing some of the tacticas coming up for the Chaos I have decided to toss out a crash course on the Chaos Space Marine (CSM) arsenal.

HQ

For the HQ’s in the CSM Codex we find that a lot of them are not all that viable. Not because their stat lines are all that bad but because they can be instant popped by a Fist, or a Lascannon the points being spent on them is hard to justify.

Lately competitive lists I have seen include Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords, and / or Chaos Sorcerers. These Three choices have been the HQ’s of choice for different reasons.

The Daemon Prince is especially popular for many different reasons:

1. It has a great stat line. (WS 7, S5, T5, etc)
2. It can be given Wings to increase movement to make it a larger threat
3. The marks are not overly expensive and they all can be effective when used.
4. They are able to take Psychic abilities to further diversify them.
5. Fearless, a Static Inv save, and the best of all Eternal Warrior.


Chaos Lords are not my first choice but they are certainly Viable for their own reasons:

1. They only cost 90 points base
2. They have an enormous war gear selection to suite them for a number of purposes whole at the same time being able to fit with a squad they are attached to. Examples include giving him Terminator armour to fit in with terminators, a Bike to equip him to a squad of bikers, etc.
3. He has a little better stat line which helps him out a lot.
4. The real downside to this character is he can be instantly killed which I find a turn off.

Chaos Sorcerer are another Great HQ choice because they unlike the Lords can cast magic.

1. They can hide amongst troops and cast spells.
2. They have a slightly higher imitative and weapon skill
3. The Sorcerers can be instantly killed as well but their ability again just like the lord to hide within squads increases their survivability.

Before moving to the Elites I would like to touch on the Marks of Chaos. By now most people are aware of the benefits but I will briefly go over them.

The first mark is the Mark of Chaos Glory. This mark is simple It allows a re-roll on failed morale. Its not an amazing mark by any means but for units holding objectives and what not having that re-roll can come in handy.

The second mark is the Mark of Khorne. This mark gives the marked squad excluding and independent characters +1 attacks to their profile.

The third mark is the Mark of Nurgle. This mark gives the marked squad a +1 toughness stat modifier.

The fourth mark is the Mark of Slaanesh. This mark gives the marked squad a +1 initiative modifier.

The last mark is the Mark of Tzeentch. This mark gives the marked squad a +1 to their invulnerable save. Units that don’t have an invulnerable save now have one.

Elites

Elites: The Elite choices in the CSM codex are a toss up as far as effectiveness goes. Played right they can sway games in your favor but with unlucky rolls, coming onto the table at the wrong times, etc can sway the game for the opponent.

Chosen Chaos Space Marines are the first choice under the Elite slot. These marines have quite a wide range of war gear, they are also able to take 4 special weapons oppose to the standard two per 10 models which makes them in say rhinos really effective. Rolling a rhino up with a squad equipped with 4 Melta Guns, dumping them out in front of a vehicle… well chances are its going to destroy their selected target. They also can take cool things like pair lightning claws, power weapons or power fists (again only on 4 models in the squad)

Chaos Terminators are the second choice under the Elite slot. These Rock solid and heavily armored units are tough as nails. Unfortunately the game has become a heavy weapon and armor war so terminators fall just like MEQ marines when it comes to heavy weapon shots. This does not mean they are not useful. These being able to deep strike behind lines and use combi-weapons make them a decent threat. But for 30 points a model risking deep strike is a tough decision. Terminators can also be given a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. They can also be given lightning claws, as well as marks but with these come more points invested into a unit that can sometimes be a gamble during game play.

Possessed Chaos Space Marines

The Special ability breakdown:

Scout--
Pro: You can toss the Possessed in a Rhino and move them a full 12" gettting closer to the enemy.
Con: You can't assault out of a moving Rhino. (Obveously this depends on having first turn or not)

Furious Charge--
Pro: Zerkers anyone? Str 6 on the Charge? Certainly can't complain about that!
Con: N/A imo...

Fleet--
Pro: When it comes to foot slogging, you have no ranged weapons so you must run. Having fleet allows for a number of new tactics with vehicles.
Con: N/A imo again this ability has a variety of tactics that come with it.

Rending--
Pro: Best with IoS (striking before most) but I think IoK is best to maximize swings to allow the possibility of more rending attacks.
Con: Pretty dependent on vehicles for movement.

FnP--
Pro: Speaks for itself really.. its FnP can never really complain about it. it simple = higher survivability. This with IoN or IoT always makes it that much more interesting.
Con: If they are stuck foot slogging.

Power Weapons--
Pro: IoS and IoK are the best here. Giving them more attacks or the chance to strike first with power weapons makes any MeQ squad shake!
Con: need double armed!!!! lol

Aspiring Champion?--
HELL NO imo.. waste of points. For a squad that is very unpredictable I would not invest any more points then the bare minimum on these gents only because you don't know what they are going to do.

Rhino?--
With out a doubt.... YESSSSSS

My Possessed set ups:
5 man squad: These I just use as a gamble squad and maybe cause the enemy to think free things to shoot at and they veer away from the real threats.
10 man squad in a rhino: Slap them in a Rhino enough said!


The last Elite squad is the Chaos Dreadnaught. These things are always a hoot. Nothing like shooting your 220 point Land Raider in the back side(yes is happens). But in all seriousness I see most dreads equipped with a pair of CC weapons. Their weapon selection is the same as any other generic dreadnaught its just their Crazed special rule that people tend to cause hesitation when selecting units.

Troops

Chaos Space marines strengths in my opinion lie within their complex troop selections.

The first troop choice is the generic Chaos Space Marines. These guys are probably the worst of the chaos troops because they come with the least benefits but this also means they are the cheapest points wise. They also are able to take a number or heavy weapons as well as take a mark to better suite their purpose on the field of battle. They are also the only troop choice that is not fearless.

The Rhino is listed next in the Troop section of the codex, as it is a dedicated transport for everything covered within the troop section. These little mobile walls in my opinion are worth every point and I strongly recommend them with every squad. These 35 points not only provide faster movement to the squad inside but they also shield them from heavy fire, they also can be used to contest objectives on last turns, they can also be used in several rhino walling tactics as well as manipulating LoS.

The next Troop choices are the Plague Marines. These guys are as tough as nails and can slug it out with the best of units. Their toughness 5 base really makes them last a lot longer during game play. The Toughness 5 combined with Feel No Pain is a beautiful combo. These marines get their standard 3+ save, and then IF they fail they have a 4+ to follow. These Marines also carry blight grenades, which negate assaulting units +1 attack modifier for charging. But “power comes with a cost” these marines cost 23 points each and they are initiative is 3 oppose to the standard 4 but the way I view it is as long as you are not stupid and charge them into terminators they can usually stick it out with ease to allow them to swing back.

These next troops are pretty interesting and their tactics are quite interesting and unique. The Noise Marinesare masters of sound technology and bring sonic weaponry to the table. Noise Marines have a variety of weapons special to them. They are "their long range shooting (Blastmaster) and their close quarters shooting (Doom Siren) are excellent infantry/MEQ killers. I5 and a Power Weapon on the Champion will finish off any survivors from the Doom Siren's onslaught" (1) because being able to swing first is always a good thing.

The Khorne Bezerkers are next up and they are nothing short of a good time. These badass close combat specialists get in your face then eat it. Their primary objective is simple, get their and kill it or be killed. Using that theory and having furious charge they flatten units.

Lastly the Thousand Sons, My first ever army back in the 3rd edition. These marines are a ranged bombshell when played correctly. They are a fairly expensive but they come with AP3 bolters, and a permanent 4+ cover save. They also have slow and purposeful which means they can move and shoot their maximum range. These guys however are the worst in close combat. Generally if they get into CC you are losing a lot of points doing something that they are not specialized in. The sorcerers that the Thousand Sons must take as champions of their squads can take one of the following: Bolt of Change, Warp Time, Wind of Chaos, or Doom Bolt. Most people take Doom Bolt for because it’s the lowest point cost and it is essentially more AP3 bolter shots with the same range. These troops in Rhinos excel a lot more them being foot slogged across the table.

Fast Attack

Fast attack have really fell short in the CSM codex, even though the theory behind them is very cool and the potential is there, the execution / ability to execute falls way short.

The first choice is the Chaos Bikers, these guys are fast and can get into combat / pop specific vehicles really fast. Their draw back is their punch is not all that hard and therefore not all that worthwhile. They are also very expensive for what they can do which is never something appealing to CSM players.

The second and last fast attack choice is the Chaos Raptors. These things never do well, and if they do that means 1 of 3 things:

1. Your opponent ignored them
2. You got extremely lucky
3. Your opponent could not stop laughing and had to call the game early.

Chaos Spawn…. I can’t say I have ever used these nor do I think for 40 points per they are remotely worthwhile. So if anyone has any info on how they do in games that I can add in this tactica I will gladly input it and give you credit for the information.

Heavy Support

The Chaos have a wide variety of Heavy support to aid them in battle. Some obviously better then others.

Chaos Havoks are the first and a pretty popular choice. They can take a wide range of heavy weapons and are pretty cheap too! They provide a great long-range support choice for the CSM.

Obliterators are probably my favorite Heavy unit for a few reasons they are able to do a number of things including swapping between any energy weapons for specific situations, Deep strike, and best of all terminator armor and 2 wounds!

Next is the Chaos Predator. Most people load it with options I like them with just the TL LC sitting on it which allows it to move 6’ and still fire.

The next is the Chaos Vindicator, this vehicle is probably the favored out of the tank choices. Lobbing large pie plates across the board behind a Front Armor 13 vehicle is a treat for the chaos. Then putting Daemonic possession on it makes it able to fire more times then not.

Chaos Defiler is another one of those semi effective and fluffy units. It has a Battle Cannon that is somewhat effective is also carries a TL Heavy Flamer, and an Auto cannon. They can be replaced with close combat arms, which can also be effective because the Defiler comes with Fleet to help it get there faster.

Lastly the Chaos Land Raider is the heaviest of the tanks in the CSM codex unfortunately it does not have anything fancy like power of the machine spirit but it still is a great assault vehicle for the Berzerkers and Terminators. It comes with 2 TL LC’s, which don’t make it entirely useless from range as well.

Summoned Daemons

The Greater Daemon as well as the Lesser Daemons are not all that great. They are unpredictable as far as when they come in. they give kill points with ease due to their terrible save. The only good thing is when you are tied up in combat and the Greater Daemon shows up to clear-cut your squad out. The only down side is that its at the cost of a champ. I do not like these and they totally killed the Daemons in this codex in my opinion they are fluffy but certainly not strengths of the CSM arsenal any more.

Well I hope this sheds some light on the codex and what every unit is about. I will probably keep revising this as there is always things to be added and removed as you re-read your work. So toss information and support your statements and I will add things if they are justifiable.

Cheers,
Chaosftw

Thanks to the following to critiquing my tactica:
(1) AngelofHope
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Last edited by Chaosftw; 11-10-10 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Editing has begun
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  #2 Old 10-13-10, 03:36 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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Hey an actual tactica, I'll add to it at lunch.
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  #3 Old 10-13-10, 03:57 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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Some notes..!

1. Chaos Lords can be more effective big-squad killers than Daemon Princes (count how many Attacks a Chaos Lord of Khorne in Terminator Armour and Lightning Claws pair makes ;). Accompany him with a group of Khorne Terminators Champions /w Lightning Claws pairs, and you got yourself an overkill unit. They are devastating in Land Raiders )

2. Noise Marines have an Initiative of 5, not 6

3. Noise Marines are the "all around choice", as their long range shooting (Blastmaster) and their close quarters shooting (Doom Siren) are excellent infantry/MEQ killers. I5 and a Power Weapon on the Champion will finish off any survivors from the Doom Siren's onslaught.

(Yes, I am a Slaanesh player, figures hahahaha ;P)

4. Best use of "vanilla" CSM: Give them a lascannon, a flamer, a Powerfist and an IoCG and put them in a Rhino with a havoc Launcher. Sit back at a home objective and shoot around. If the enemy comes too close, "woosh" them with the flamer and assault them. 10 CSM are good in cc, see it as a powerfist with 10 Wounds ;) Same job can be done by a squad of Noise Marines (with Blastmaster and Doom Siren), although more costly and less effective vs Walkers/MCs that made it to your lines (PF kills them better than a Power Weapon).

5. Summoned Greater Daemons are quite ok, it's just that they add an extra Kill Point, and I personally prefer keeping my KPs to a minimum.

6. Indeed, Raptors and Spawn are a waste of points, Defilers are borderline in this category too.

Good all around information!!!! :D
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  #4 Old 10-13-10, 04:58 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelofHope View Post
Some notes..!

1. Chaos Lords can be more effective big-squad killers than Daemon Princes (count how many Attacks a Chaos Lord of Khorne in Terminator Armour and Lightning Claws pair makes ;). Accompany him with a group of Khorne Terminators Champions /w Lightning Claws pairs, and you got yourself an overkill unit. They are devastating in Land Raiders )

The only reason I did not put it in saying something like this was for 2 reasons basically. I am talking as far as the unit on its own. I am not saying IF you give them this, equip them with that, put this mark on them, put them in that squad, and they need to be in a Land raider. I was simply looking form the perspective of that Unit on its own. Now I do agree with the proper tools a Chaos lord can far exceed what it looks like in the codex base. But again thats not really what I was going for. Also you need to factor in the points you need to invest in 1 unit to be that effective.

2. Noise Marines have an Initiative of 5, not 6

Thank you sir! its been changed

3. Noise Marines are the "all around choice", as their long range shooting (Blastmaster) and their close quarters shooting (Doom Siren) are excellent infantry/MEQ killers. I5 and a Power Weapon on the Champion will finish off any survivors from the Doom Siren's onslaught.

I am going to add a snip of this in my post. I will credit you, thanks again!

(Yes, I am a Slaanesh player, figures hahahaha ;P)

Ya I started to see that as I was reading

4. Best use of "vanilla" CSM: Give them a lascannon, a flamer, a Powerfist and an IoCG and put them in a Rhino with a havoc Launcher. Sit back at a home objective and shoot around. If the enemy comes too close, "woosh" them with the flamer and assault them. 10 CSM are good in cc, see it as a powerfist with 10 Wounds ;) Same job can be done by a squad of Noise Marines (with Blastmaster and Doom Siren), although more costly and less effective vs Walkers/MCs that made it to your lines (PF kills them better than a Power Weapon).

Back to my same point as the Chaos Lord a lot of extras and points invested to do this.

5. Summoned Greater Daemons are quite ok, it's just that they add an extra Kill Point, and I personally prefer keeping my KPs to a minimum.

I agree completely among other issues

6. Indeed, Raptors and Spawn are a waste of points, Defilers are borderline in this category too.

haha yup yup!

Good all around information!!!! :D
Thank you for the comments! I appreciate you taking the time to do so!

Cheers,
Chaosftw
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  #5 Old 10-30-10, 01:59 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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Havocs can take special weapons and/or heavy weapons. They are just too expensive for what they bring to the table.

Summoned daemons are not nearly as bad as you imply. They can assault on the deep strike. With 8 of them you are looking at a 10 - 16" charge range off of the deep strike with an icon. I find that more than useful.

Nurgle bikers are very good at turboboosting a champ into your face for the greater daemon to pop out. T6 3++ is hard to kill before the goods are delivered.


Defilers are decent below 1500 and not so good above. Always use 4 x DCCW and move 6", fire the battlecannon. On turn 3 or so you will be within fleet range. Charge and kill. Always take in pairs!

ood work on the tactica!
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  #6 Old 11-01-10, 11:20 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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I like to take a squad of Chosen and infiltrate them.
Give them a Lascannon, and their Champ a Melter and Power Fist, and your opponent gets scared. Focuses stuff on them, in their cover...
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  #7 Old 11-13-10, 07:26 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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i must protest against the spawn being useless, they're incredibly effective as a bodyguard unit, i like them when their joined by something hard like ahirman, it takes nothing short of a demolisher cannon to instant death them, plus with ahirmam/sorcerer, they can make more spawn with gift of chaos, bring on the spawn!
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  #8 Old 11-14-10, 01:18 AM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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ok i am a defiler fan. i just have to say even though the battlecannon is weaker than the vindi but its range is absolutly great. my defiler plays 3 roles
1. horde/GEq infantry killer-sit back and use your cannon to blast infantry into smouldering embers
2. armour hunters.- 5 DCCW attacks (i always take the extra 2 arms as i like to fire the cannon as much as possible) with fleet the defiler can get to and rip apart transports and other armour.
3. target- due to the defiler being huge there is not a lot that can provide it cover but it can provide cover for everything else including ur transports, DPs etc. part two of this is the fact every turn the enemy spends targeting ur defiler (front armour of 12 isnt bad) then thats an extra turn oblits, chosen etc etc that would normally be targeted get to shoot.

a note on spawn- great fun/fluffy units including gift of chaos. great for objective games if you manage to turn a enemy champ that is minding an objective into gibbering mass of muscle and teethand so locking them in combat, constesting objectives nd preventing heavy weapon fire. though not worth it in killpoint missions as they are easy to be killed
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  #9 Old 12-11-10, 06:38 AM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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As a note, Chaos Chosen can take up to 5 special weapons

Nothing better than outflanking 5 Meltaguns at a LR
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  #10 Old 06-19-11, 09:12 PM Chaos Space Marines From Beginning to End
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nice tactica, but i do disagree on one point. Raptors can be effective if you use them right. i really have no idea where they got the bad rep. i can honestly say they are probably my favorite unit next to oblits and chosen.

to bolster my seemingly fanboy argument, here are some interesting facts i..... requisitioned from another tactica;

Some interesting points regarding jump infantry: they can land on impassable terrain. Impassable terrain also includes friendly and enemy models. So stick them on that defiler and enjoy your nice little cover save . More seriously they are not affected by Jaws of the World Wolf. Whether it was a typo or not, jump infantry are not listed in the units that are affected by the psychic ability. They can also be joined by a winged sorceror or lord to make them even more dangerous. You can also give your winged sorceror lash of submission and pull units into assault/flamer. Although some would argue this is a waste of lash (and I would probably agree)

As far as my ideal Raptor list goes, it includes 2 flying princes, 2x 8 man raptor squads with meltas and 2 squads of zerks in rhinos going forward while being supported by CSM with missiles and Oblits in the back.


while i haven't played this army, i could see it working if the player used his mobility to its full potential and kept his Raptors alive by using them to kill the enemy piecemeal.


i really think that most people go wrong by using their raptors as Kamikaze's. all you have to do is move them through cover towards a single enemy tank or squad. if that unit is in a place where the terrain will shield the raptors from retaliatory fire, they should be fine.

imagine how annoying it would be to lose a pair of Vindies or something to two raptor squads that then just jump away into the ruins without a single loss.

pisses you off, doesnt it?
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