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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-09-16, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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Default Strange Article, On Maturity, Slaanesh and 40k

I know this is my 1st post under this alias, I've been under this name for almost two years now outside of Heresy, back in the day I was a regular on this site under the name The Spore (or it was Spore Mine can't remember) anyway this was my work I use to share on here a long time ago, TheSpore666's DeviantArt Gallery

Anyway this is not why I am here, I am back to bring this discussion to you all, this article dropped this week on BoLS as a guest editorial,

Mobile On Maturity, 40K and Slaanesh - Bell of Lost Souls

Now, skip towards the end where the author is pointing out how Slaanesh is not mature enough and the think of the children rhetoric is being used in the article, basically screaming for GW to remove Slaanesh from the lore and the game.

Now, I have seen this type of thing begin and it won't be long before more weirdos like this start popping up to do this, its the cult of Social Justice, these people will claim that anyone who disagree with them is racist, or sexist, they will claim things need to change and your hobby needs to grow up. Also take note these kind of people DO NOT buy anything they DO NOT care about the hobby its all about pushing an agenda and forcing their politics, they are loud but few in numbers most the time.

Its happened in Comics, its happened to Movies, its been happening to other TTGaming communities, and most recently the #GamerGate thing where its happened in Video Games.

I love 40k and I just want to get the word out before more of this starts to happen in the 40k community. I just want people to know DO NOT let this happen, u have to refute them and push back hard on them to show them they need to stop.

I talk about this stuff in both comics and 40k in the below links:


What are everyone's thoughts on this

***Understand I am not here to shill my YT channel I just wanna to make sure people are aware before they truly push to demonize the community****

Last edited by LordNurgle0777; 06-09-16 at 02:51 AM.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-10-16, 08:38 AM
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I honestly think that this Social Justice Warrior thing has gone too far. Why plastic soldiers have no women in the bag? Ridiculous.
About the article, me thinks that addressing Slaanesh as genderphobic and immature or offensive is pathetic and blatantly stupid. I think slaanesh is the most mature, gender-equal aspect of the game(he/she is a fucking hermaphrodite and would totally cheer knowing you are a drag, trans or have mixed sexuality.) What about the fascist - male driven - patriarchy Empire of star-holocaust? How comes that THAT is ok and absolutely halal for those fuckers that keep bashing their heads over gender policies in games?
Also, i've always wondered why saying "tits" loud is going to kill a 12 yo mind while "Exterminatus" is perfetly ok. Let's read something good about exterminatus (from WH40K wikia)

" they completely wiped out Istvaan III's entire population of 16 billion people in only minutes, leaving the planet barren but habitable, if only just"
16 billions dead people is ok. Tits are not. basically you can go along the road and shout heil fucking hitler, but you better keep those tits in check, motherfucker.

"Imperial Virus Bombs release a special virus known as the Life-eater Virus that was genetically designed to quickly spread and destroy all organic cellular structures it infects, reducing all planetary life, whether flora or fauna, to an undifferentiated organic sludge of biochemicals and organic gasses as a by-product, both of which are highly flammable. Exterminatus protocols dictate that a lance strike or an incendiary device be deployed to ignite the byproducts and turn the atmosphere into a firestorm that usually takes out whatever life may be left."
Again, it's ok to portray an entire planet (made of people like you, me, the baker, the mechanic over there, that mother with toddler there) just sludging its way to the grond due to virus induced liquefaction. And then become a ball of fire. Ok then. Totally sane.
I bet a lot of the foreign fighters in Siria And Libia took some of the WH40K novels too seriously. And not the sexy parts.

Also, why the hell Slaanesh is considered to be just the god of kinky sex? He is not. If i say "lust, excess, pride, perfection. Also with exposed female breast" and you laugh 'cause you only heard "breast", i am mature and you are not.

I fear that an Age of Sigmar treatment is coming for slaanesh in 40K too, thanks to people like this moron who wrote that (interesting but) stupid article.

If anything, mature aspects of the game, not involving violence, should be further developed, at least in the books if not in the game itself.

Ok. Rant over.

Btw @LordNurgle0777 i like your rants.

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The calls of Slaneesh stir so deeply within me, as if I was birthed from the very essence of it. For my ambition to infinitely ascend above all is never ending, like fire within it burns me to ever cindering ash. Lord of light and ascension is who I am, realities burn to ash at my very passing. My luminescence is unparalleled for I am luminosity itself, all light is but a shadow of my silhouette
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-10-16, 05:22 PM
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I read the BoLS piece though I haven't listened to your reactions. I think this is a storm in a teacup.

I think the author makes a number of very points about what qualifies mature content. I also agree with him that wargaming isn't the best medium for mature discourse. I also think his final supposition that slaanesh could be a FW property isn't unreasonable, however I think that conclusion misses the point.

My rejoinder is: there are a number of assumptions and conclusions in this piece, which to the best of my knowledge are wrong. First, that 40k is a game for children. It wasn't originally conceived of that way. Reading through the early publications like Rogue Trader and Realms of Darkness, these are not intended for kids. The realms books included a mature audiences warning. Second edition of 40k was a little more appropriate for younger players, but not much.

Only with the drastic redesign of the game for 3rd edition (ugh, how I despised 3rd Ed!) was 40k targeted to early teen or preteen players. During this time there was also a real concern about how to handle slaanesh. Gw purportedly produced something like 25 sculpts of the keeper of secrets before they could re-release the model to a game with a younger audience. I think the entire arc of 40k development between 3rd edition and the 5th has been marred by the same problems. Gw has simultaneously increased prices and reduced the maturity level of the game (both rules and content) so that only the children of the wealthy or working adults could afford the game. This alienates the core demographic of 16-25 (ish) players who are growing into more mature forms of media and often prices them out of participation.

Interestingly, the last 2 editions of 40k have seemingly doubled down on targeting that more mature demographic again. The content of the games and the complexity of the rules are once more moving into more grown up territory.

The other major error the author made is in identifying the chaos gods as nothing more than heavy metal album art on steroids. The chaos gods represent primal emotions and urges carried to their most extreme. As though the 7 deadly sins were trimmed down to 4, khorne is rage, nurgle is fear, tzeentch is greed, and slaanesh is lust.

The only way the author's point may be valid is if there are, as he suggests women, men, or LGBTQ players who are offended by Slaanesh. I'm interested to know if there are gamers who are offended by slaanesh. And obviously, I can't speak for any of those groups. I think slaanesh characters and art clearly borrows from BDSM culture and equipment so I could see members being offended. Though I would argue that slaanesh isn't about sex or fun or food or any one pursuit in particular but all of them and taken to their utmost extreme, and anything taken too far is detrimental. The game isn't for kids. As @neferhet has so eloquently pointed out genocide is ok, but tits are objectionable?

Gw needs to tone down marketing 40k to kids. Unless there are players truly offended by slaanesh is a silly argument. I even recall an article or press release from GW about the difference between 40k and Age of Sigmar, where the GW writers claimed that AoS was intended for younger audiences, hence 2 pages of rules, no points, and no slaanesh! And they were reserving 40k as their game for more mature audiences.

So all of that said, I can't speak for anyone but I'm interested in the opinions of other members of this forum.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
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Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-10-16, 06:25 PM
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Honestly get used to it, there is a vast untouched market out there in terms of younger folk. D&D has been in the last few decades purged of most of it's 'mature' content for this reason. My oldest daughter was praised by her 1st grade teacher a few years ago because we let her play D&D. It is now less viewed as a tool of devil worship and all that other crap and more as a math and social building tool. The more success that is seen of that nature the more it will spread. I personally don't see an issue with this, the more people playing the better is my feeling on the matter. I don't play this game for 'mature' content, its a fucking over blown game of plastic army men. If they suddenly purged all the fluff and models of anything 'mature' I still would play the game, it would not reduce my enjoyment or desire to play one bit.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-12-16, 06:52 PM
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I wont rest until the Emperor comes out as a mixed-race pansexual non-binary. Also, I find his lack of religion to be offensive towards people of a religious standing, so I suggest making him a Jehova's Witness who is also a practicing Shiite Muslim who also embraces all of the other major religions on a rotating weekly basis. The minority must have a majority representation, and if you disagree, you are all homophobic, xenophobic, racist Hitlers!

It turns out that Chaos has their own band...
https://youtu.be/rTGzcdq0_NQ
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-26-16, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neferhet View Post
I honestly think that this Social Justice Warrior thing has gone too far. Why plastic soldiers have no women in the bag? Ridiculous.
About the article, me thinks that addressing Slaanesh as genderphobic and immature or offensive is pathetic and blatantly stupid. I think slaanesh is the most mature, gender-equal aspect of the game(he/she is a fucking hermaphrodite and would totally cheer knowing you are a drag, trans or have mixed sexuality.) What about the fascist - male driven - patriarchy Empire of star-holocaust? How comes that THAT is ok and absolutely halal for those fuckers that keep bashing their heads over gender policies in games?
Also, i've always wondered why saying "tits" loud is going to kill a 12 yo mind while "Exterminatus" is perfetly ok. Let's read something good about exterminatus (from WH40K wikia)

" they completely wiped out Istvaan III's entire population of 16 billion people in only minutes, leaving the planet barren but habitable, if only just"
16 billions dead people is ok. Tits are not. basically you can go along the road and shout heil fucking hitler, but you better keep those tits in check, motherfucker.

"Imperial Virus Bombs release a special virus known as the Life-eater Virus that was genetically designed to quickly spread and destroy all organic cellular structures it infects, reducing all planetary life, whether flora or fauna, to an undifferentiated organic sludge of biochemicals and organic gasses as a by-product, both of which are highly flammable. Exterminatus protocols dictate that a lance strike or an incendiary device be deployed to ignite the byproducts and turn the atmosphere into a firestorm that usually takes out whatever life may be left."
Again, it's ok to portray an entire planet (made of people like you, me, the baker, the mechanic over there, that mother with toddler there) just sludging its way to the grond due to virus induced liquefaction. And then become a ball of fire. Ok then. Totally sane.
I bet a lot of the foreign fighters in Siria And Libia took some of the WH40K novels too seriously. And not the sexy parts.

Also, why the hell Slaanesh is considered to be just the god of kinky sex? He is not. If i say "lust, excess, pride, perfection. Also with exposed female breast" and you laugh 'cause you only heard "breast", i am mature and you are not.

I fear that an Age of Sigmar treatment is coming for slaanesh in 40K too, thanks to people like this moron who wrote that (interesting but) stupid article.

If anything, mature aspects of the game, not involving violence, should be further developed, at least in the books if not in the game itself.

Ok. Rant over.

Btw @LordNurgle0777 i like your rants.
Thank you I worked quite hard on that channel and its still growing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
I read the BoLS piece though I haven't listened to your reactions. I think this is a storm in a teacup.

I think the author makes a number of very points about what qualifies mature content. I also agree with him that wargaming isn't the best medium for mature discourse. I also think his final supposition that slaanesh could be a FW property isn't unreasonable, however I think that conclusion misses the point.

My rejoinder is: there are a number of assumptions and conclusions in this piece, which to the best of my knowledge are wrong. First, that 40k is a game for children. It wasn't originally conceived of that way. Reading through the early publications like Rogue Trader and Realms of Darkness, these are not intended for kids. The realms books included a mature audiences warning. Second edition of 40k was a little more appropriate for younger players, but not much.

Only with the drastic redesign of the game for 3rd edition (ugh, how I despised 3rd Ed!) was 40k targeted to early teen or preteen players. During this time there was also a real concern about how to handle slaanesh. Gw purportedly produced something like 25 sculpts of the keeper of secrets before they could re-release the model to a game with a younger audience. I think the entire arc of 40k development between 3rd edition and the 5th has been marred by the same problems. Gw has simultaneously increased prices and reduced the maturity level of the game (both rules and content) so that only the children of the wealthy or working adults could afford the game. This alienates the core demographic of 16-25 (ish) players who are growing into more mature forms of media and often prices them out of participation.

Interestingly, the last 2 editions of 40k have seemingly doubled down on targeting that more mature demographic again. The content of the games and the complexity of the rules are once more moving into more grown up territory.

The other major error the author made is in identifying the chaos gods as nothing more than heavy metal album art on steroids. The chaos gods represent primal emotions and urges carried to their most extreme. As though the 7 deadly sins were trimmed down to 4, khorne is rage, nurgle is fear, tzeentch is greed, and slaanesh is lust.

The only way the author's point may be valid is if there are, as he suggests women, men, or LGBTQ players who are offended by Slaanesh. I'm interested to know if there are gamers who are offended by slaanesh. And obviously, I can't speak for any of those groups. I think slaanesh characters and art clearly borrows from BDSM culture and equipment so I could see members being offended. Though I would argue that slaanesh isn't about sex or fun or food or any one pursuit in particular but all of them and taken to their utmost extreme, and anything taken too far is detrimental. The game isn't for kids. As @neferhet has so eloquently pointed out genocide is ok, but tits are objectionable?

Gw needs to tone down marketing 40k to kids. Unless there are players truly offended by slaanesh is a silly argument. I even recall an article or press release from GW about the difference between 40k and Age of Sigmar, where the GW writers claimed that AoS was intended for younger audiences, hence 2 pages of rules, no points, and no slaanesh! And they were reserving 40k as their game for more mature audiences.

So all of that said, I can't speak for anyone but I'm interested in the opinions of other members of this forum.
YOu two make valid points, by all means the SJW nonsense is a storm in a teacup, but they are a loud bunch that just move from 1 thing to another to push their BS agenda. They pretty much are like Tyranids, I became more aware of this insanity when the whole #GamerGate thing happened ( I know the Mainstream Media says evil things about it ), the very media based around gaming literally attacked their own audience and tried to ruin the video game industry and this shit is still ongoing. The whole purge teh boobs to make the game mature is all about the whole feminist agenda nonsense.

These fools will lie and the only way to shut them up before they try to push more of this nonsense is you have to show how dumb they are make them look foolish. They will not listen to reason, they will simply call u a racist/sexist or w/e if u prove them wrong.

When they came at video games it was, gamers need to grow up, gamers are dead. My fav. new push is Games cause sexism, and anything that shows a sexy woman in a game is considered sexist.

Thanks for ur feed back folks.

May CHAOS be with thee - Lord Nurgle
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-26-16, 07:41 PM
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Personally, I think that Slaanesh gets a bad rep for a lot of stuffs and it has always hindered him/her/it a lot when it came to models and story line.

I can easily understand the toning down of the "sexiness" of the demonette line, but the current laughable product line towards Slaanesh is getting pretty sad. (Chaos as a whole is starting to look pretty sad as well)...

All the while the outright removal of Slaanesh is almost impossible lore wise for 40k, we see how instrumental that he is in AoS (sadface), since entirely too many things revolve around him/she/it - Fall of the Eldar empire/creation of the Eye of Terror being the big duo.

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if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
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