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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-08-14, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Default Can Vampires(or Counts) be good?

Just a question came through my head while making fluff for my Grail Knight who falls from grace, then ends up spending centuries in self exile in a crusade to rid The old world of evil.

Can a vampire or vampire count be good excluding sucking blood to quence there thirst? Can one be a good guy fighting evil?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-08-14, 11:53 PM
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It's your army, you can make the fluff whatever you want.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-09-14, 09:04 AM
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Sure. I believe there's a sorta good vampire in the Gotrek and Felix series. Morality in warhammer is often rather gray though. Just as it often is in real life.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-15-14, 10:05 PM
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Genevive dioudonne was possibly a good vampire appearing in some earlier wh books such as drachenfeils & genevieve


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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-16-14, 11:17 AM
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The Good Vampire trope has been something that Warhammer has actively tried to distance itself from, but for more than "ooh, Vampires are evil, look at Dracula, blah blah" point of view of stereotypical fantasy.

The "good vampire" as in Blade, or any other antihero type used to be a thing, back in very early Warhammer - Genevieve Dieudonne was written by jack Yeovil/Kim Newman (same person), and has been used in several books written under each pen name, both in and out of the warhammer universe - however, Games Workshop IP requires that their IP is not used out of the warhammer setting (hence why you'll never see a Games Workshop versus Star Wars game, and the old Dawn of War mods which attempted to do that were shut down).

As Genevieve has not made another appearance in a Warhammer Fantasy novel, she's pretty dead and buried considering that the nature of the game and its fluff has massively advanced in the 25 years it has been knocking about (that series is older than me, yo!), and we've had, at least 4 new editions since then.

I also do not think that the Vampires are capable of "good". The nearest allegory to that are the Blood Dragons - Abhorash, the first of the blood line actively tried to resist the call of the Blood, but that caused him to become near insane with bloodlust and slaughtered much of the city as he fled into the wilderness - however, that is from Liber Necris - an awesome book if you ever get your hands on it - but sadly, with information that's different from latter books - Mike Lee's Nagash for example.

However, the fluff with a Vampire now is that they are changed by Nagash's magic. They must feed off blood to sustain themselves, which is what makes them "evil" in human eyes. If they don't, they risk becoming more Bestial, similar to Strigoi or, possibly, with the aid of Dark Magic, become a Vargheist. Because they are ever living, they get to see the passing of ages, see things change, and all other romantic "ever living" stuff where they see everything they ever knew and ever love turn their attitudes.

They are also a superior form of being - they are faster, stronger, often more intelligent, all have magical prowess (note that magical prowess does not necessarily mean that they are all Battle Mages, though). This basically means that they are dismissive of the lesser humans which colours their opinion even more so, especially when already they are likely to be aristocrats, or members of some order of likely nominal meritocracy (such as a Knightly Order, or College of Magic).

Their attitude is coloured by the older they live, and that they desire to have a purpose for their eternal life, plus especially now with the ever growing call of Nagash.

The one "old" Vampire we are currently unaccounted for is the Eastern Prince Xian Ha Feng from the Nagash Trilogy.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-14, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Final Frontier View Post
Just a question came through my head while making fluff for my Grail Knight who falls from grace, then ends up spending centuries in self exile in a crusade to rid The old world of evil.

Can a vampire or vampire count be good excluding sucking blood to quence there thirst? Can one be a good guy fighting evil?
Depends what your definition of good. Lawful to chaotic good no. Lawful neutral....no..... they seem to be pretty much Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Evil. It seems the older a vampire gets the more they become to see themselves as not human. There was a vampire in the 2nd Vlad book that was White Wolf Knight
. There is the Ulfrika trilogy, I've never read Gortek but she mentioned working with them before she became a vampire, in the books she was a newborn by vampire standards, first book she was a week old and the third she was a few months old.

From what I've read vampires can range from seeing humans as food source but not wanting to kill them all to seeing humans as nothing more than animals and practice terrible farming practice that will undoubtedly end with the starvation of most vampires and extinction of humanity. I don't see any problem with a vampire fighting certain enemies, but the whole vampire hunter vampire..........can't really see unless it's to get rid of competition. I think of human vampire relations as sort of like the relation between humans and cattle....you have some that just eats them and don't give a flying bat where they come from, you have others that wants the guide them so they don't die out, and you have others that doesn't care how they are treated so long as there are more.

In the Red Baron book

Last edited by locustgate; 10-18-14 at 01:04 AM.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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White Wolf Knight sounds interesting, any more fluff on him?

Do vampire lose all there human emotions and morals when they turn or is it just the thrist for blood which makes them go nuts?

Can a Norma vampire overcome his thrist for blood like the founder of the blood knights(yeah I know he killed a dragon and drank it's blood)

I feel like GW nevers answers questions in the grey zone.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Final Frontier View Post
White Wolf Knight sounds interesting, any more fluff on him?

Do vampire lose all there human emotions and morals when they turn or is it just the thrist for blood which makes them go nuts?

Can a Normal vampire overcome his thrist for blood like the founder of the blood knights(yeah I know he killed a dragon and drank it's blood)

I feel like GW nevers answers questions in the grey zone.
He was the leader of the White Wolves but was turned by Vlad. It's been 2 years, I think he was named Jerek Kruger.

I believe so long as they aren't starving they can have human behavior. Vlad and Isabela were in love (OCD levels/ Romeo+Juliet style), in the Vampire war series
In Ulfrika trilogy she seemed perfectly human. It seems the older a vampire gets the more jaded they become.

Ulfrika, her grandsire, stated that 'as a vampire ages it needs to feed less'. At the start of the trilogy she had to feed everyday, near the end it was every other day.

I thought it was Melkhior, as he is the one that hid next to a sleeping dragon.....though Abhorish may of also done it.

GW LOVES grayzones.....if it's not clear then make shit up, believable shit.
Does anyone know an up to date wiki for warhammer.....lex is kinda behind.

Last edited by locustgate; 10-18-14 at 04:36 PM.
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